How to drive like a Northwest Imbecille:
1) Get in your red 2006 jetta
2) Turn up iPod to full volume and connect with Belkin FM transmitter to German sound system…put Volume on “11”.
3) Make sure all windows have been tinted to maximum darkness.
4) As you drive around local streets, be sure to stop and go as you like, pausing to look at shop windows and see if “some girl you saw” is in there.
5) Ignore all other drivers.
6) Meander in each and every lane, as needed (by you).
7) At stop signs, be sure and take several minutes as you finish whatever fantastic story your recounting on your cell phone.
8) Pull up slowly near corners and peer around and make sure that everyone is looking at you.
9) Then, push accelerator to max, and make turn at 90 mph in crowded street. Race up hill.
10) Get to next stop light and repeat.
Northwest Driving HOWTO
February 17, 2010The Seattle Freeze | Local bartenders are stone-cold serious about ice.
December 15, 2009
via seattlemet.com
All about incredibly expensive ice machines here in Seattle, as the whole Seattle Freeze bit is such a pervasive expression.
It does mention Vessel, which is the best bar in Seattle.
If you do not agree, you are wrong, and will be frozen out and without any friends.
The United States of Mind
December 15, 2009
e-Yurt: The Seattle Freeze: Real or Imaginary?
December 14, 2009Case in point: I went to a friend’s cookout in Oakland for July 4th. (Thanks, D&M!) By the time I got home, I had text messages from 2 people I had met there — just friendly follow-ups for drinks or whatnot. There’s nothing truly remarkable about that, except that it wouldn’t have happened to me in Seattle. There would have been polite conversation, followed by vague promises to “hang out sometime,” and then … nothing.
It sounds like this guy found some people who have “enough friends.”
Epic Yelp Freeze Thread [Part 5]
December 14, 2009The final chapter!
06/10/2007 Mark In The Dark S. says:
Wow what a discussion! OK, here’s yet another angle! When I first moved to South Florida, back around 1974.
The vibe from the local people was often kinda
southern and slightly country. It IS the South. By
the time I left, around 1986, the vibe from the South
Floridians was quite different. We often referred to
South Florida as, New York City with Palm Trees! We
also joked that South Florida was basically a suburb
of New York City! There were so many New York people
there. South Florida had become way Hispanic, over 60%
Hispanic in Dade County, which is Miami. (And in my
opinion it made the city more exciting and happening).
And Ft. Lauderdale had changed from a sleepy tourist
stop/beach to a hard urban metropolis. Not only had
the Hispanic population taken off, but so had the
growth in general. It was quite a transformation
which took about 10 years. I’ll never forget, whenever you met someone new, the
first thing you’d say was, “where are you from?” It
was an amazing time down there. It also changed many
other parts of the area. The music, dance music
exploded with KC & The Sunshine Band, The Bee Gees,
Expose, Miami Sound Machine, and a famous club
scene… in the past the big music from that area was
Eric Clapton on 461 Ocean Blvd. Coconut Grove had
been a hippy hangout, bohemian kind of place. By the
time the mid 80s arrived it was totally slick and
gentrified. I wonder if Seattle/Portland will become “L-A with
mountains” or “North L-A?” How will this area and the
people change as times goes by? Or, will it stay about
the same?
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/10/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I miss Latino people
they’re pretty
06/10/2007 Bounce B. says: The mass of Seattlites lead lives of quiet
desperation. What is called “freeze” is confirmed
desperation. From desperate apartments they go into
desperate parking lots, and have to console themselves
with the bravery of Post-its and yipping rants.
06/10/2007 Michael O. says: I miss Latino people. I miss Italians and Greeks. I
miss African American people. I basically miss loud
assed people from warm parts of the world. Perhaps temperature is the key and global warming can
melt the freeze. š
06/10/2007 Michael O. says: Oh and I totally agree on the activity based thing. I
had a hard time meeting people until I figured that
out. Back east I would meet people and then we would
do activities together. Here I do activities and then
I meet people. Hint: For those having a hard time meeting people you
are on an activity based site right now. Take
advantage of that.
06/10/2007 Zachary P. says: The Genius Of The Crowd there is enough treachery, hatred violence absurdity
in the average
human being to supply any given army on any given day and the best at murder are those who preach against it and the best at hate are those who preach love
and the best at war finally are those who preach peace those who preach god, need god
those who preach peace do not have peace
those who preach peace do not have love beware the preachers
beware the knowers
beware those who are always reading books
beware those who either detest poverty
or are proud of it
beware those quick to praise
for they need praise in return
beware those who are quick to censor
they are afraid of what they do not know
beware those who seek constant crowds for
they are nothing alone
beware the average man the average woman
beware their love, their love is average
seeks average but there is genius in their hatred
there is enough genius in their hatred to kill you
to kill anybody
not wanting solitude
not understanding solitude
they will attempt to destroy anything
that differs from their own
not being able to create art
they will not understand art
they will consider their failure as creators
only as a failure of the world
not being able to love fully
they will believe your love incomplete
and then they will hate you
and their hatred will be perfect like a shining diamond
like a knife
like a mountain
like a tiger
like hemlock their finest art Charles Bukowski
06/10/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: Michael O says:
“”I basically miss loud assed people from warm parts
of the world.”” amen brother – let’s MAKE SOME NOISE!!! woo hoo –
italians reprezent!! Bounce; perhaps the best cure for desperation is to
MAKE SOME NOISE!!!!? wouldn;t it be great if all
that’s needed to melt the freeze is a little hootin’
hollerin’ and whoopin’?!
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
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06/10/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: that’s AWESOME roger – then seattle can be the new san
francisco!! (ducks and runs for cover)
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/10/2007 Bounce B. says: Amen Miss MAD. Show these temperate people what
extremes are all about.
06/10/2007 Mark In The Dark S. says: Well, I just want to suggest… ANYWHERE but Spokane,
the trailer park of the Northwest! š Lived there
for a year and it was as bad as Jacksonville. NOT
recommended.
06/10/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I don;t think that’s a bad thing at all – but it’s not
possible
06/10/2007 Alan G. says: When I first moved here from Honolulu – I froze my ass
off. I said many-a-time that Seattle was “freezing”
cold. At about the same time I had a friend that
moved here from Antarctica, and he thought it was
actually quite warm. Believe it or not, we had a
third friend who was born and raised here, who in a
very Goldilocks-and-the-three-bears esque way, thought
that Seattle was just right.
I had to explain to those stupid fools ALL THE TIME
how I was right… and I could prove it because just
look at all the sweatshirts and long-pants I had to
wear all the time. But they wouldn’t believe me. I wish that we had the internet back then so we could
do all of our debating about the “freeze” on it. We’d
probably still be going to this day, because those two
guys were some seriously stubborn assholes.
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/10/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: Honolulu – now there’s some pissed off natives!!!
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/10/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I think I’m done talking to myself for today
06/10/2007 Scott F. says: I object to that, being an arrow rather than
driftwood. Working out of my home, I chose Seattle
over EVERYWHERE else in the U.S. And I have no
problem with adjusting, but still not to fluid-sharing
stage. I think I only have about 10 good years left
in me, so I’ll be on the fast-track social environment
adjustment track. …new-Seattlite waiting for smidgeon of lutefisk.
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
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06/10/2007 Scott F. says: Roger – that is so true. The city attitude is very
positive about dogs, and the dogs are MUCH better
socialized than suburban or country dogs. I think most of the kids I see downtown are
mini-tourists – so not much of an opinion about
Seattlian kids. But I hear they rarely share their
toys and when they say “Can Johnny come out to play?”
they don’t really mean it and leave before the kid
comes to the door. (joke)
06/10/2007 natasha t. says: i dont know, i guess i never really understood the
whole seattle freeze thing because i’ve never fallen
victim to it. i moved to seattle from the suburbs and
immediately made really good friends at my new job,
who then brought me to parties where i met their
friends and became friends with them…and soon
enough, i felt like i knew everyone in a certain scene
in seattle.
but i have since moved to sf and i feel like its way
harder to make friends here.
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
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06/11/2007 Michael O. says: Dogs will melt the freeze faster than anything else.
People who otherwise would never talk to you will talk
to you if you have a dog. Someone should start a rent
a dog service. What about you MMAD? You have a surplus of them. š
06/11/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I only pimp out my dogs for cupcakes and that theory is incorrect
06/11/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/11/2007 Michael O. says: MMAD: Is there really a doggie freeze? Do tell! Who
knew?
06/11/2007 Scott F. says: Roger, thanks for that link. I think that is nuts –
parents always have these twisted ideas of how
children should interact, and everything is magnified
when it is their child and the parent has “needs” for
the child. Those kids are too innocent to be
participating in some imagined “child Seattle freeze”
subculture. Sure, they’ll learn it from their
parents, but I don’t think they’ll be practicing it
much as kids. Everyone knows the stories about
children who play together subversively, even though
they are from different social classes/races/etc. and
their parent disapprove. I actually met my former wife through my dog – I was a
runner with a twisted ankle, so she called up and
volunteered to walk my then-puppy for me. How
romantic. She ended up being jealous of my dog and
now we are divorced. The last thing I said to her was
“You can say whatever you want about me, but I won’t
put up with you insulting my dog.” I got kind of a
weird look, which must have made it easier on her. I
digress.
06/11/2007 Michael O. says: Ah that link was interesting. Not just for the kid
part, but the part where the author herself (someone
who believes in the freeze and does not view it as a
positive thing) admits if she deems someone “too
friendly” she thinks to herself “Why are they so
friendly? Do they want something from me? Is there
something wrong with them?” This is why, as has been mentioned, meeting people
through activities works better. You have to approach
people here with an agenda. If you don’t, they will
assume you have a hidden one and not trust you. Oh and Scott F, that is my quote for the day! “You can
say whatever you want about me, but I won’t put up
with you insulting my dog.”
06/11/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: all I’m saying is: anyone who does not like Ferghal is
dead inside
he has rehibiltated ppl who were terrorzied by dogs
and made playmates out of mean ass pit bull types –
and I am stealing Scott’s line, I am not like Ferghal
I am NO saint I did not read the article but yes the freeeze exists
among children – they learn it from their parents
heard on a playground – “oh no!! another one from
california!”
har har
06/11/2007 Scott F. says: California? I was told by a native yesterday that
Seattlites don’t like Texans (I’m a Texan). I found
that particularly strange since I haven’t met many
Texans up here. I know they don’t like us in
Colorado, but that’s because of the arrogant rich
Texan skiers. But in Seattle? Maybe because of Bush.
Bush is from Texas, Scott is from Texas, thus Scott =
Bush. haha. Also: Beauty is skin deep, Seattle is beautiful, thus
Seattle is skin deep?
06/11/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
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06/11/2007 g g. says: Roger N. – It’s a bit amusing to refer to logical
fallacies after peppering this thread with more than a
few of your own…along with a pep talk to the troops
to continue bitching about natives. The inference that if I only spent 24/7/365 I’d agree
with your conclusions is false. Don’t make any
assumptions regarding the quality or quantity of my
time there. Besides, the Freeze isn’t universally and
irrefutably true. My experience with the note merely
confirms someone was angry enough to place it in my
car. It does not eliminate the fact that people across
America and the world have experienced something like
it. Whether or not the negative attitude is acquired
versus preconceived, the point is that it is by
choice. I wasn’t attacking Robin in my post, though
that distinction is easily lost in a thread which
includes name-calling and hostility. One of the
longest threads in Seattle Talk is transplants ripping
on natives. That, coupled by denial or lack of
ownership on the part of the complainants, isn’t
likely to produce much beyond a self-fulfilling
prophecy. For all the talk about PNWers, it’s the
transplants I have no desire to meet. Besides, your choice to recently join Yelp with few
(if any) reviews then immediately jump into this talk
thread with harsh words and name calling is more
telling. The only thing left to decide is whether
you’re a troll, a newbie lacking netiquette skills, or
an existing member without the courage to own your
words. Robin R. – I would just go with guts. I didn’t have a
note left on my car when I lived in other cities,
either. That still doesn’t tell me much about the
person who left it on mine in Seattle, except that
they were rude and incorrect in their assumptions. For
all I know they could have been from New York. And
while I see your point that it could be considered
passive aggressive, it is also risky to write a note
and place it on a person’s car not knowing when they
might return to catch you in the act. From that
perspective, it takes some courage. Devin G. – We’ve been shuttling to the area for
years, and our experiences have also been
overwhelmingly positive. Some of our friends are not
natives, but many of them are. In any case, if we come
across a person with an attitude, we see it as their
problem to resolve. It doesn’t change who we are, nor
how we approach the next person.
06/11/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/11/2007 g g. says: There are replies much longer than mine. Who told you to peek? Yes, I also spend time in the
D.C. area. Love the no BS testosterone but could do
without the opportunistic backstabbing. Then again, it
puts hair on the chest. I don’t like to see people get down about themselves,
even if it is their fault. That energy could be put to
better use. And while passive aggressive can be a tedious bore,
nails on a chalkboard won’t win out, either. It is indeed a matter of of subjectivity. Haven’t you heard? I like Au Bon Pain.
06/12/2007 Michael O. says: I miss Au Bon Pain. They used to mark the pastries
down every day half price after 5. š
06/12/2007 Michael O. says: Whoa! Their website says there’s one in Microsoft. http://www.aubonpain.com… I might have to pose as a tech head and crash one day.
06/12/2007 g g. says: I never thought to check their listings – how
brilliant. I think there’s an event scheduled for
September I can crash. I love their braided soft rolls
and shortbread cookies. Time to ramp up the workout…
06/12/2007 Jon L. says: Don’t even have to pose Mike, just give a shout. : )
06/12/2007 Scott F. says: g.g.- this ‘self-fulfilling prophecy’ nonsense is a
cop-out and a way to blow off taking responsibility.
But that’s your problem, not mine – as a transplant
who came here with a completely positive attitude, I’m
dealing with the PacNW’s social inadequacies the best
I can. As I mentioned earlier, the easiest way is
simply to not invest emotional energy in relationships
with anyone native to the state of Washington. And
that’s pretty much what I am doing. No, this isn’t a
self-fulfilling prophecy – it is recognizing reality
and dealing with it.
06/12/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/12/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: there’s a troll in fremont
06/12/2007 Michael O. says: But the troll is a native, so Scott can’t talk to him.
06/12/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/12/2007 GG A. says: I thought Lenin was a mas murderer.
06/12/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/12/2007 Scott F. says: You guys are hilarious! I was actually in Fremont
last night and ended up walking home (passing the
Lenin statue, which I spoke to and had one of the
deepest conversations of the night – he still blames
Paul for the break-up), skipped the troll for reasons
already mentioned – as I walked over the bridge I
could actually feel his icey glare….probably wanted
to correct me for jay-walking.
06/12/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/12/2007 Scott F. says: I used to like Lenin, but eventually decided too much
ironing required – and Marx showed, though not as much
as expected. Toss out the Lenin, quit Stalin…
06/13/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/13/2007 Michael O. says: It’s too non PC. We don’t talk about it. Besides many
people stubbornly insist it does not exist. Still if I had the money I’d open a place called that.
š Does that mean the people who work there have to be
superficially polite but not genuinely nice and treat
you like they want you to go away?
06/13/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: ha ha ha
sounds like a party I went to once
06/13/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/13/2007 Michael O. says: So what flavors of Ice Cream would you serve at the
Seattle Freeze? I would opt for: The Seattle Flake: Rich Vanilla Ice Cream with pieces
of flakey pie crust mixed in. * * Please note: We may cancel your order at the last
minute without warning.
06/13/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/13/2007 Michael O. says: A sign on the wall would read: “The Monorail Mocha flavor is no longer available,
even though we’ve already partially charged you for
it. Have a nice day.”
06/13/2007 Scott F. says: I’ll have mine in a Waffle cone.
06/18/2007 Robin R. says: Michael O.: Actually there is a “dog rental” service
of sorts. Seattle Animal Control seeks dog-walkers.
Most of them walk around Green Lake with dogs wearing
little blue coats indicating their availability.
06/18/2007 Ian S. says: This thread suddenly has become entertaining again.
06/18/2007 Ian M. says: (eyeing dates of most recent contributions) “Suddenly”?
06/18/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: last summer
06/18/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/18/2007 Michael O. says: I saw who you did last summer
06/18/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: shut up Mikie – i told you that in an ice cream
induced stupor…
wait. what did I say?? oh yeah – It’s cold in here. which thread is this???
06/18/2007 Zach Cares G. says: Die, die, die.
06/18/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/18/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: so Yelp has gone international?
06/20/2007 g g. says: Scott F. — Ah, another newbie who jumps straight into
Yelp’s talk thread about Seattle Freeze. The fact of
the matter is some people are jerks and some aren’t.
Some are more open than others. It doesn’t matter if
they’re from Seattle or San Francisco. Those who
continue to whine, insult, or call names – then assert
it isn’t them but that other person – aren’t fooling
anyone. The choice to categorise and characterise an
entire population on the basis of their native status
is a myopic one. It isn’t recognising reality,
dealing with it, nor taking responsibility. Attempting
to broadstroke an entire population is the copout. And what happened to our other little newbie?
Self-ejected, did he? *lol*
06/20/2007 Scott F. says: Ah, GG – another “veteran” who discredits an opinion
that differs from her own, by using the “newbie” term.
I’m a “veteran” on several other forums, so I
understand the temptation to do that, but that is
actually the cop-out, not me offering my opinion.
When you are talking about a group of more than one,
you are generalizing by definition. If you can’t do
that (in effect, notice “patterns” of behavior), then
you don’t have much of a chance of understanding your
environment. Good luck to you.
06/20/2007 Robin R. says: GG: Who exactly is trying to shirk responsibility?
In my own case, I’m not going to let the Freeze keep
me from trying to socialize. Some interesting
pointers I might try have been offered here, including
seeking activity-centered friends. Someone else
mentioned dogwalking, another recommended seeking out
other non-natives. I see a lot of people here
seeking solutions, not copping out.
06/20/2007 g g. says: Scott – I wasn’t discrediting your opinion via newbie
status. However, I was questioning the comparative
likelihood that one would join Yelp and jump straight
into a specific thread with a particular attitude.
Further, I countered the idea of categorising an
entire population on the basis of singular
experiences, then acting upon it. I understand my
environment rather well. More importantly, I take
ownership for my interactions and how my thoughts,
actions or beliefs might impact them. I also don’t
require luck to manifest successful results. Robin – I refer to those who infer natives should be
slammed en masse or treated a certain way,
particularly when a hostile attitude is exhibited
alongside ‘but it’s them’ proclamations. I agree that
a positive approach is more proactive and some have
offered this, just as others have resorted to
stereotypes, insults or name-calling. I’ve had both
pleasant and unpleasant encounters in Seattle – not to
mention practically everywhere else I’ve been in the
world. Such is life.
06/20/2007 Michael O. says: My goodness, we can’t even get all silly without
someone having to interrupt with pesky seriousness! š Okay want me to be serious? Who cares. Be happy. The
only person you control is yourself. If someone is an
ass they aren’t worth your time anyway so just write
them off and move on. And if you run into a lot of
asses, so be it. That’s life. There’s good things and
good people in the world too. It’s a sunny day, it’s summer. The freeze is melting.
Stop worrying about who said what and who is rebutting
who and for god sakes (and this is not directed at any
one person and I am so guilty of doing this many times
too) stop playing last word people! Okay, now back to my regularly scheduled sillyness! š
06/20/2007 Maia H. says: Michael I concur. The end. š
06/20/2007 Tiffany D. says: You tell em’ Michael – and remember – SMILE in your
pics!
06/20/2007 Amy W. says: Amy was here. (I haven’t been involved on this yet,
had to jump in).
06/20/2007 g g. says: My goodness, we can’t even get all common sense
without someone having to interrupt with pesky
whining! š Stop worrying about who is serious or silly and who is
discussing the topic with whom and for god sakes –
stop confusing it with last word people! Okay, now back to my regularly scheduled indifference! *seal claps*
06/20/2007 Maia H. says: One more time for the cheap seats in the back, The
end!
06/20/2007 g g. says: Try front row. You don’t hear the buzz from the people
in the balcony. Or more to the point, bypsass theatre
and just converse. If you want the thread to end, flag it and maybe Yelp
will delete it. Otherwise, people will post as they
please.
06/20/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I hate wimpy ass flaggers
unless something is blatantly racist or offensive –
just leave it be if you don;t like it, just don’t read it it’s not like this thing is non existent – I was glad
to find it becasue I thought it was an island thing… if it is killed, I will ressurect it
06/20/2007 g g. says: Bet you like wimpy ass whiners though. They’re about
the same. If people don’t like something, they can read it, not
read it, or flag it. Land of the free over there,
right? The freeze is existent for some and not for others.
What more is there to say about it? The point is
whether a thread should be dedicated to bashing or
insulting people. And bad, rude, or standoffish
behaviour is a people thing. People can kill it as many times as you can resurrect
it, especially if it turns into unnecessary flame
wars. All a matter of where you choose to place your
energy.
06/20/2007 Maia H. says: I don’t plan to flag it. I guess I will hit the
elusive ignore button. I think the people in the
balcony or wherever in the imaginary theatre wanted it
to end. Their sentiments have been expressed many
times; on this thread and elsewhere. I’m just tired of
seeing this poor dead horse being beat over and over
and over and over and over again.
06/20/2007 Ian S. says: Deal out flames with one hand and gift tolerance
brownies with the other. Yawn.
06/20/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I don’t recall seeing a flame war on this thread – but
my heat tolerance is quite high I do recall a lot of
“oh, thank god, it’s not just me” type of responses I think the thread gets ressurected mostly because
there are new ppl moving here all the time – and in real life, I speak with one or two ppl a week
who ask me “what is up with these people?”
I tell them there is thing called the seattle freeze –
I heard about it on NPR – they go running to the
podcast Like Yelp itself, I find it an interesting phenomena
06/20/2007 g g. says: Indeed, Maia. Sometimes it’s train wreck material. Let’s all go over the cliff together like lemmings.
Anyone who doesn’t, let’s put a cloth over our face
and distort their protestations against insults as
flames. Double yawn. And though my heat tolerance is crazily high, I’m not
the only person in the world. Though I do like to
think so sometimes. And yes, in some worlds calling
people names isn’t considered a flame war. Iraq? Not to discount the many who have attempted to hold a
civil conversation on what is, for them, an issue.
Others, especially the sorts who swoop into the thread
out of nowhere and insult, just seem to vent about
rude people whilst being rude.
06/20/2007 GG A. says: NPR said it, so it must be true.
06/21/2007 Michael O. says: Ok there are multiple GGs now. Are we going to have to
put a moratorium on GGs like we have on Ians? I’m not whining, I’m just saying be happy people. It’s
summer, the weather’s nice. Who the fuck cares what
other people think or say? But if it floats your boat
to come here and post your opinions then so be it. And if your sole or primary purpose for coming to
Yelp.com is to come on this thread and go ‘bla bla
bla, yadda yadda yadda, yackety smackey hey’ then in
my opinion you’re missing out. Just sayin’ Now feel free to go right back to your bitching and
telling people how wrong they are and whining about
whiners. Carry on.
23 hours ago Miss Mary Ann D. says: I’m not saying that because it’s on NPR it’s true, I
am sayng that when newcomers experience ppl here as
being leery/weary of newcomers, they often take it
personally and think they are the only ones who are
not feeling welcome. they are interested in hearing other’s experiences, so
they are eager to know they are not alone – so the podcast is of interest to them and while I
haven;t listened to it, I did hear the original
airing, and many of the comments form both sides
echoed those found here but of course, GG A (formerly Michael h) – you aren;t
interested in that, you just want to be negative and
insulting, as usual. and yes, gg the swoopers and trolls can be annoying,
but I think that for the most part it is an
interesting dialogue
22 hours ago Scott F. says: In response to what you said below, now I get your
response and your reaction is fair – I did not join
Yelp, then jump into this specific thread – I joined
Yelp BECAUSE I had googled “The Seattle Freeze” and
found this thread. I had never heard of Yelp. I was talking with a friend who moved here from New
Mexico, discussing how difficult it was to make
friends after moving from the South where it was IMO
very easy. He laughed and said there was a name for
that phenomenon “The Seattle Freeze”, and told me to
google it on the internet. I did, and I found the
article (which I read) and also this Yelp thread. I
thought it was great to be able to discuss with
others. As a side note, I think the reason this city
is so dog-friendly is because there are so many people
trying to exist in a bubble, and it doesn’t work too
well – they need companionship and dogs take the place
of people to an extent. Of course, obviously there
are plenty of people who disagree, but as I said, I’m
noticing patterns and reacting so that I can fit in
and enjoy it better. And I’m not throwing my hands up in the air and giving
up – I bought a downtown condo today, so I’m committed
to living here. If I was going to write off this
place because of disagreeable social patterns I have
noticed, then I would not give a flip about
participating in discussions like this, and I
certainly would not be buying a home. I also think it’s positive that you react the way you
do to those who question your city – when this subject
is brought up to locals, the more common reaction is
for them to scrunch their foreheads a little, get
silent, then find an excuse to wander away. “Scott – I wasn’t discrediting your opinion via newbie
status. However, I was questioning the comparative
likelihood that one would join Yelp and jump straight
into a specific thread with a particular attitude. “
22 hours ago Miss Mary Ann D. says: I said this at the beginning of this thread “”my sense is that “Polite Seattleites” prefer people
who are like them – they aren;t big into diversity or
different points of view, and view those things as
some sort of confrontation. “” Dear Seattle:
don’t be sceered it is okay for us not to agree, we
can still be friends.
case in point: me and Maria C, me and Jaz M, me and
Mel R
I freakin; love those women: no matter how misguided
;o)
just because you weren;t what we were expecting or we
don;t understand you and you hurt some of our
feelings, and some of us may even say you suck – you
know you rock, so just let us work it out
the ones who love you will stay
Love,
MMAD
22 hours ago Don L. says: Can’t we all just get along?! *starts pouring drinks and handing them out*
22 hours ago Don L. says: 327 replies? *327*?!?! Wait, now 328? Dang, this has
GOT to be one of the longest threads out there.
22 hours ago Miss Mary Ann D. says: it isn’t
20 hours ago Don L. says: Seriously?! WOW…you’ve got to send me that other
thread name…what could possibly go on longer than
this?! (329 now. Grin)
20 hours ago Miss Mary Ann D. says: Dan L: there are several in SF and LA – here’s one
that tops 2000
<a href="http://www.yelp.com/topi…
http://www.yelp.com/topi…<br />
if you’d like to discuss that subject – go ahead and
start a thread on it! š and for the rest of you – I tried to bury this thread
for today , but it keeps popping up
sorry
17 hours ago Ian S. says: Yes. Why wont people stop bumping this thread. You know it’s all trolls, flames, trolling flames,
flaming trolls, and trolling flaming trolls.
12 hours ago Scott F. says: Ian, post some links to other threads you think are
interesting. I joined Yelp purely because I googled
this thread, and I’m too lazy to look for other places
to play. help. Scott: settled in Seattle with dog and easy access to
beer – who needs people?
12 hours ago Miss Mary Ann D. says: there are other places to play???
8 hours ago Kristina R. says: The only person from Seattle I’ve met is Mary Ann
D…and she’s really hawt. I’d hand feed her cupcakes all the live long
day…woo! I LOVE SEATTLE!
57 minutes ago Michael O. says: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/w…
http://www.youtube.com/w…<br />
Sing it with me now o/~ I’m gonna soak up the sun, I’m
gonna tell everyone to lighten up o/~ And MMAD and her bitches do indeed rock. Actually I
think she only has one bitch. The rest are boys.
31 minutes ago Miss Mary Ann D. says: Kristina!! you promised the cupcake love was our
little secret … now I’m ruined
27 minutes ago Margarita V. says: Where do I begin….We moved from New York City four
years ago for a better place for our kids and for the
affordability factor. I can stay home with them here.
We chose to move first to lower Queen Anne and in the
first year figured out that we wanted to be closer to
the school on top of the hill. So we moved up there
thinking, well we are in the neighborhood, no reason
not to make friends. So it is 4 years later and still
no solid friendships which we are beginning to accept.
I don’t know if it’s the neighborhood in particular,
or if it is just Seattle. Just to clarify, we moved to
Queen Anne because it was central and we did not have
to buy a car. We like to live as simple as possible.
Also, did I mention we rent an apartment, which in New
York is absolutely normal. You live, work, marry,
raise your kids in your APARTMENT. Here it seems to be
some sort of Taboo. Even at my husband’s place of
work, people who do not live in affluent places, have
the need to inject him with the thought that, you NEED
a house, you NEED an SUV or some car you cannot
afford. It is really sad to say, but it seems that
only those who have been outside of Seattle (whether
native or not) are really more open minded to our
simple way of living. I say this, because I am not
sure which this all equates to the cold treatment. I
know a few families who are in similar situations and
feel the same way. My son who has been going to school
here for 4 years, lives in the neighborhood, has
forged no sold form of friendships and he is a great
kid (we get tons of praises about him and not this is
not doting mother talk, we really have good kids=that
can go to fancy restaurants and not order the chicken
fingers!). I find this disturbing that my son is outed
at such a young age. It is like people have these
ways, standards even. The families who vacation
together, have dinner parties together are friends.
Their kids become cliques. So my kids haven’t found
good solid friends because we are not LUCKY enough to
be in one of these whacky cliques. On the hill at
least, there is a hierachy. Those who are married, own
property, white collar all hang together. They might
let you in if you are a single parent if you own
property. However, you are out if you rent, not work
in tech field, or non white collar job. I always
thought that when you are invited to someone’s house
at least several times, you become friends. It’s odd
how many “we should have you over for dinner” we have
been asked to, but yet come into fruition. There is
definetely a coldness on Queen Anne, but I have to
say, this is where I find myself at home because of
all the places of business I visit and then get to
YELP. It has definetely helped my husband and I become
closer. We don’t fit the mold and certainly won’t
conform to it. We know we won’t settle our roots here.
The East Coast is for us. You know who doesn’t like
you upfront. Like someone said, “you must not be from
here, because you are really NICE!”
..and then the thread was cast out by the moderators of Yelp and banhammered from the internets.
Epic Yelp Freeze Thread [Part 4]
December 14, 200906/05/2007 Gavin N. says:
Yeah I agree..there is definitely a Seattle freeze
here…I felt it a lot at Gonzaga in Spokane, but a
lot of people who went to my school are from the
Seattle-area. I mean a lot of people here are very
nice to strangers in regards to quick smiles, head
nods, simple courtesy. But that’s pretty much it. In
Guam..if you make eye contact, smile at someone,
etc…expect to hear this “what are you staring at,
want to fight?” or a nervous girl walking away and
grabbing her bf to kick your ass for eying her. Here
it’s a little more friendly than that..but that’s
where it stops. If you make conversation with a
stranger, it kind of ends there. And clubbing forget
about it. Pretty much anyone and everyone I’ve met in
this area has been from school, work, or friends of
friends..or on line.
Back home you dint get that initial friendliness, but
once you get past that barrier, say you meet people at
a bar or some random party or just make a random joke
and you’re not a weird stranger..you hear things like
this “hey dude I’m having a party/fiesta..come over
bring a six pack and party dude”. yeah nothing like
that here. Anyway that’s my experience with I guess
the Seattle freeze…”Hi have a nice day” AKA “Hi have
a nice day..somewhere else”
~G
06/05/2007 chris l. says: i experienced the “freeze” on this site yesterday.
not really sure if there was a reason. but it was
disheartening š¦
06/06/2007 Robin R. says: Chris: what happened?
06/06/2007 chris l. says: doesn’t matter, im probably just bing to sensitive.
wont be attending any events tho.
06/06/2007 Michael O. says: Who freezed you? Do tell. It might help if you had a
picture, any picture. Doesn’t have to be you. Could be
a dog, or a flower or a potato. I admit to being a bit
biased toward those with pictures and at least
partially filled out profiles vs those who don’t.
Seems a lot of people just come on here to snipe and
do a drive by nasty review to someplace and then
leave. I feel like if someone wants to participate
here at least put a little effort into it. *shrug* But still I try not to freeze anyone out if
approached.
06/06/2007 Scott F. says: Interesting conversation, but I don’t think there is
anything to be done about it – most new people who are
normally extroverts figure out the situation fairly
quickly. I didn’t need “the freeze article” to
explain what was going on, but it was nice to read
that others were experiencing the same thing. Most
area natives ‘shrug’ and don’t seem to get it, because
to them it is normal. I find that on the surface,
Seattlites are VERY friendly – it is very easy for me
to meet people here. But as many have noted, it’s
tough to make friends. No big deal – you learn to do
things on your own more and enjoy that time –
eventually you make friends. Also, it surprises me
to hear that some of you find people being
‘unfriendly’ – that’s different to me from ‘the
freeze’. (Last time I use that term). BTW – I moved here 10 months ago from the SouthEast.
It’s a different culture – not better or worse.
Seattle is very different, and that is why I’m here –
I don’t expect or want the people here to change for
me š – just trying to figure them out, fit in, have
fun.
06/06/2007 chris l. says: doesn’t matter who did the freezing. actually i had
my picture on here. pulled it down yesterday….. it
is old news now.
06/06/2007 Maia H. says: Are people still in the business of freezing people? I
thought that went out with Jeffrey Dahmer.
06/06/2007 Kristin K. says: I’m another California transplant (yeah, yeah — go
ahead. I’ve heard it all). I came from San Francisco,
but also lived in Washington D.C. (which is brisk —
not chilly). Even though I’m a native, I felt San
Francisco was somewhat unfriendly too — people are
just self-absorbed. But it was really easy to make
friends. Here — I don’t know what the deal is. Granted, we
bought a house over on the Eastside, so maybe that’s
it. I was so crushed when our neighbors
avoided/ignored us for months and months. I thought
that was the whole point of living in the ‘burbs —
community, bake sales, kids playing. When our home was
robbed over Christmas, the cops told us that our
neighbors were sheepish when they admitted they didn’t
know us — didn’t even know our names. Things have
changed a bit since then. I completely agree with Ellen L’s post that there
seems to be a low-level anger here. I also get that in
colder climates people tend to wall themselves off a
bit more than in warm ones. When I was in St. Pete,
Fla., on business in February, everyone waved, said
hello. It was startling. My hubby and I have been here for 18 months, and
despite the “Seattle Freeze,” we love it here and have
made a lot of friends. But I think it’s telling that
ALL of them are from somewhere else, too.
06/06/2007 Scott F. says: That’s strange. Maybe it’s because I live downtown,
but I don’t sense any ‘low-level anger’ – on the
contrary, the politeness is almost weird at times.
Good point about all your friends being from somewhere
else. This will sound kind of bad, but one way I’ve
adapted to this situation is that when I find out
where someone is from, if they are a native to the
area I am more careful not to get very personal with
them, because it’s generally not only a waste of time,
but likely to offend by getting in their personal
space.
06/06/2007 Katie S. says: Yes, well.. as someone who has lived here for years, I
can’t really speak to the ‘Seattle Freeze’, but I’m
sorry that many of you have had this experience here.. That said, I experience the same thing whenever I’m in
NYC. I love that city and have friends there, but in
general people seem to be cold and unhappy. I’m a
really outgoing, happy person and it tends to get me
no where there. Just sayin’.
06/06/2007 Robin R. says: Scott F: some of us did need the article, though. For
years I’ve wondered what I was doing wrong, why I had
so little luck here finding friends, in comparison to
the other places I have lived. I’ve lived abroad and
in other regions in the US and did not have these
social issues, but I still wondered if the problem
here was me. The article gave me some validation.
Mind you, the article did not give me the excuse to
just throw up my hands and stop trying to make friends
here. I will still make the effort, but I no longer
feel so alone in this matter.
06/06/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: well, after a week of 70-80 + degree temperatures, I
am FREEZING my butt off at 58 degrees …. BRRRRRR
06/06/2007 Maia H. says: ha ha, me too Miss MAD. I almost busted out the wool
coat this morning!
06/06/2007 Kevin W. says: I haven’t felt like I was on 56k in a looooong time.
This is exactly why Yelp needs to implement ‘pages’
for threads
06/06/2007 Ian M. says: MMAD, indeed, it feels like it’s March again. Or
April. Or November. Kevin, agreed. This forum implementation is, hmm,
lacking. Woefully. There’s a thread in the SF region
that has over 1,500 replies. Had I been amongst the
initial contributors, I would have given up trying to
read or reply after a couple hundred posts.
06/06/2007 Mark In The Dark S. says: Ha! Scott F (several posts above) you are SO cool!
The first person on this thread to actually suggest a
way to deal with this strange aspect of the Pacific
NorthWest natives! Scott F sez, “One way I’ve adapted to this situation
is that when I find out where someone is from, if they
are a native to the area I am more careful not to get
very personal with them, because it’s generally not
only a waste of time, but likely to offend by getting
in their personal space.” That is IT! Just back off the clannish locals and
politely be receptive only to those who have lived
elsewhere, when you’re lookin’ for real friends!
America is one of the most mobile societies, there are
many, many non-locals in the Pacific Northwest, just
like everywhere else. It’s a somewhat sad state of affairs but, I think he’s
probably quite on target! Life is too short!
06/06/2007 nate j. says: This might not be indicative of all Seattle area
natives, but I rarely get too engaged with new people,
whether they be natives or not, for fear that they
might think I’m being too pushy or intrusive on their
space. Also, I never make it a point upon meeting a new
person to initially say, hey, where are you from? And
certainly, I wouldn’t launch into conversation and
abruptly cut it off when I discover you’re from Tulsa
or Bakersfield instead of Tukwila or Burien. Lastly, there is a certain amount of wishy-squishy
when it comes to making plans, and it isn’t
necessarily penciling in an appointment until
something better comes along. Usually more like guy
#1: “hey let’s go mountain biking sometime!” Guy #2
(a native): “that’d be cool. I’ll call you.” Guy #1:
“Great. Later.” I don’t think guy #2 has any clue
guy #1 might be sitting around waiting for the call to
go biking, nor does he realize it’s rude to totaly
sort of make plans and never follow through, nor does
he realize guy #1 might not like guy #2 anymore due to
the realization guy #2 is flakey.
06/06/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: when someone is interested in chatting with me, I ask
them what part of california they are from – haven;t
missed yet.
06/06/2007 Maria C. says: ahem…
06/06/2007 Scott F. says: Mark – when I see my words repeated they sound
terrible! It’s just that I am cognizant of the fact
that the natives have different social interaction
rules and I have to respect those rules. Here’s an
example that we’ve all seen elsewhere, but probably
not as often as in Seattle: if a local says “Hey,
let’s get together – I’ll call you and we’ll go have
dinner” …. it means nothing unless they are
already a friend. But if the same situation occurs in
Texas, you’ll probably get a call. The difference is
that in the South they won’t make the comment unless
they mean it, but in Seattle that sort of thing gets
thrown around a lot and generally doesn’t mean
anything. Superficially very friendly but no
follow-through – gives newcomers and tourists a false
sense of friendliness that is only skin-deep. It’s
still a great place and I think friendships will
gradually develop here like anwhere else, just slower
– I don’t plan on leaving anytime soon.
06/06/2007 GG A. says: Seattle Freeze, otherwise known as “an external point
of blame that sad, lonely people can put on their
social failures”. Every region experiencing a high
influx of people has some similar urban legend, and
it’s always written about in the local metro paper
that’s written in the Village Voice format, because
this is the kidn of thing those papers write about..
When I moved to New York, there was a similar moan
fest.. When I moved to SF, same thing.. Philly?
Ditto. When a large group of people move to an area
at once, then there’s just a communal feeling that
gets vocalized “hey, it’s hard to meet people here,
the locals might suck” by one or two people, and the
next thing you know it’s fact, which helps create an
equally and opposite reaction from “locals” about
those damned invaders. Whatever, it’s paranoia. I’m a jerk, yet I’ve made 1/2 dozen friends in the 3
months my family & I have been here. If I can make
friends, then the rest of you need to shut the fuck
up, go out, meet some people, and get over it.
06/06/2007 Robin R. says: Instead of insulting us, how about some solid
suggestions? Where are good places in Seattle for
meeting new people, who we can convert into our own
half-dozen friends? Any recommendations for speaking
to the people here? Any ideas how to “get over it”?
Thanks in advance.
06/06/2007 Zachary P. says: “I’m a jerk, yet I’ve made 1/2 dozen friends in the 3
months my family & I have been here. If I can make
friends, then the rest of you need to shut the fuck
up, go out, meet some people, and get over it.” birds of a feather flock together…
06/06/2007 Scott F. says: First rule of the internet Robin – don’t feed the
trolls.
06/06/2007 Kevin W. says: *runs out the door crying*
06/08/2007 Robin R. says: Scott F. you’re right, unfortunately it was too
tempting to ask how I can make a half-dozen friends in
three months also!
06/08/2007 Ian S. says: I love this thread. Here’s what you do. Post a lot on the internet and
never go outside. After the first month, go to your
bathroom at midnight and stand in front of the mirror.
Whisper “I need to get out more” three times with
your face 1″ from the mirror. Make out with your
reflection if necessary, but say it three times. Saint Yelpstrum, the One True Founder and First of the
Venture Capitalists of Yelp will appear with a shaker
of martinis and be your Best Friend Ever! After that, it’s all downhill to social success, a
wealth of orgasms, and unlimited disposable income.* Please post your success stories summoning Saint
Yelpstrum to this thread to let us know it worked for
you. * : PS – I will have your humility.
06/08/2007 Rebecca L. says: Ian S,
a wealth of orgasms? Do you deposit that wealth into
a bank or redistriubute?
06/08/2007 Alan G. says: Ian S. is right. I’ve been here in Seattle for 15
years now, and have been able to court over 41
friendships in that time. (For proof look at my
friend list. http://www.yelp.com/user… That’s
right 42 baby! And growing every day!) Sometimes my
friends compliment me, or send me messages, and then I
write them back. It makes me feel like a really real
person in a way that a live human never could. Yelp
is the best thing that could’ve EVER happened to my
“social life”.
Thank god the HH’s aren’t mandatory. I haven’t left
my closet/room/house in over three years, and don’t
plan on starting now.
06/08/2007 Maia H. says: I think a wealth of orgasms are certainly tangible
throughout the group. Compliments are like foreplay!
06/08/2007 Scott F. says: I know that the ‘internet/yelp friends’ comments were
made tongue-in-cheek, but there really is something to
be said for that. You will say things to people over
the internet who you barely know, that you wouldn’t
say so early in a ‘relationship’ in real life – then
if you physically meet, it’s easier to get to be
friends (you know, that thing that is deeper than what
you have with the guy at the coffee shop who says “Hi
Bill” to you every morning). So maybe a partial solution is to participate MORE in
these internet forums, meet a few people here from the
Seattle area, then actually physically meet at some
point. Just a thought…I don’t plan on doing it, but
it might work for you all. š
06/08/2007 Alan G. says: Actually, when I made those comments my tongue was,
um, well… let’s just say it WASN’T in a cheek.
06/08/2007 Ian S. says: Scott: You might be surprised what I say to people I
don’t know well in person. Not that I meet people in person, mind you. I’m too
busy partying in my parent’s basement or in a van down
by the river.
06/08/2007 Tiffany S. says: Ian – I’m amazed you’ve found room amongst the bodies
to “party.” PS. Bodies are not friends.
06/08/2007 Ian S. says: Tiffers: It’s the closets that are full of skeletons.
The zombies are out in the woodshed. The basement is
strictly for mad scientists and their monsters.
06/08/2007 Marissa S. says: Scott…..funny..I am exactly the same in person as I
am online. Which might be a bit frightening. I am not
scared to say anything in person that I would say
online. And I get annoyed when people are different in
person….REALLY annoyed.
06/08/2007 Marissa S. says: Scott…..funny..I am exactly the same in person as I
am online. Which might be a bit frightening. I am not
scared to say anything in person that I would say
online. And I get annoyed when people are different in
person….REALLY annoyed.
06/08/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/08/2007 Marissa S. says: wow Roger, that was really harsh…. I wouldn’t nearly go that far. I come from the South
(Texas)…and have lived in 2 of the top 15
friendliest cities….(Austin is where I feel most
comfortable outside of Seattle)…and it has been very
difficult to make friends up here…in fact I have
only made 1 really close friend, and he is also from
Texas…
Until Yelp, Thank god for Yelp! I still think it is hard to make CLOSE friendships
with locals…..but I wouldn’t go as far as to say I
wouldn’t want to…I just haven’t been able to. now….get me with some other Southerners and then I
might let some harsher things slip š
but there are locals in here who are VERY nice!
06/08/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/08/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: Roger N says: “”passive aggressiveness, insularity, conformity,
xenophobia, nosiness, (negative) sensitivity,
duplicity, and smugness that help form the “Seattle
Freeze” are not traits most people (outside of the
Pacific Northwest) really value in their friend”” I just wanted to see that again… alright – I admit it I am Roger N in real life….
06/08/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/08/2007 Robin R. says: Roger N.: I agree that, at times, it is best to leave
an area if you dislike the social scene. It’s not
always the case, as there is more to a city than its
social scene. Leaving is not an option for me at this
time, for career and personal reasons. There are also
non-social aspects about the city I do like, including
the recreational opportunities and the theater scene.
Overall, I find Seattle “worth it” but I am
interested in talking about some of the problems here
in hopes of finding solutions. The suggestion you offer that one might want want to
just avoid friendships with natives is an interesting
one. You are correct, passive-aggression and
duplicity here are more common than in other places
I’ve lived. There are some other regions where people
will come right out and tell you when they think you
“suck”, and why they think that. While it’s never
enjoyable to be told that, I’ll take that over the
style here where people who seem unbothered by you and
instead screw you over in an extended, subtle fashion.
06/08/2007 Mark In The Dark S. says: I think the long, long neverending discussions on this
topic both here an on Portland Yelp pretty much prove
“something is up.” I don’t expect the locals to
change, it really doesn’t matter to me. I’ve just
lived all over the country and notice the difference.
I enjoy noticing the subtle differences in the
different parts of the country, I think most of them
are cool and should be appreciated. They are rare.
What brought it to our attention here in the PNW was
the way people avoided eye contact when we said “hi”
to them in public here. Some, not all, here seemed
really surprised to be spoken to in public. So now
it’s just kind of a hobby to watch that kind of
reaction from some people I am exposed to. I often
speak to people on purpose just to see which “version”
they are!!! I used to think they were cold, but now I
believe they’re just not comfortable around people
they don’t know. No better, no worse. It’s just the
way they grew up.
06/09/2007 Ian S. says: Well at least we can all agree that Portland sucks and
that Seattle roolz. That’s something, anyway. Go team go!
06/09/2007 Scott F. says: Mark, in reference to what you just stated, great
stuff, but regarding the part I’ve quoted below, I
don’t find this to be true; on the contrary, people
are MORE likely to make eye contact and say ‘hello’ in
Seattle (with me, anyway). Maybe you have a wandering
eye or something? They are just less likely to get
any deeper than that. This is just my experience, but
perhaps it has to do with living downtown and having a
cute dog? I’ve always lived in the suburbs, so
perhaps downtown areas are friendlier in general, and
if I lived anywhere else I would be blown away with
the friendliness. City perspectives are interesting. I always heard
that the French were real snotty toward Americans, but
after spending a week in Manhattan, then a week
following in Paris, I had MANY more rude experiences
with New Yorkers (and I interact a lot). I can
honestly say it’s very, very rare to have anyone be
rude in Seattle…until you get to know them better š Also, this is a great thread – as a result of these
shared experiences there are probably a few people
thinking “Cool – it’s normal – I’ll just deal with it
and have fun”, rather than saying “This place is
unfriendly – I’m out of here.” “…What brought it to our attention here in the PNW
was the way people avoided eye contact when we said
“hi” to them in public here. Some, not all, here
seemed really surprised to be spoken to in public. So
now it’s just kind of a hobby to watch that kind of
reaction from some people I am exposed to. I often
speak to people on purpose just to see which “version”
they are!!! I used to think they were cold, but now I
believe they’re just not comfortable around people
they don’t know. No better, no worse. It’s just the
way they grew up.
06/09/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: “”I can honestly say it’s very, very rare to have
anyone be rude in Seattle…until you get to know them
better š “” exactly.
06/09/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/09/2007 Amanda S. says: I agree with Roger’s answer to the infamous Seattle
Freeze, I am from the south, Jacksonville Florida to
be exact, and I have been in Seattle for over a year
now. Manners are completely out the window in regards
to passing strangers. I understand Seattle is a big
city but when I lived in NYC for 6 months, it was
always easy to say hello to someone passing by….. I
have gotten used to the culture here though and
adjusted quite nicely because my ideals of people have
changed. By doing this, I found that people are more
approachable once you back off and not worry about
every single action someone did or did not do. š
06/09/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/09/2007 Amanda S. says: LOL Roger, I agree with everything you said!! At
least you would get a rise out of bleeding heart
consevatives in the south as opposed to blank stares
and silence :). I never mentioned that you have
OCD over every little action, I did though, and I just
learned to stop listening to what the rude,
overbearing Seattleites have to say and just go with
the flow. I completely understand what you are saying
and glad you spoke up about it because it seems like
people in general just keep everything inside and end
up being pessimistic and downright negative about
everything š
06/09/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/09/2007 Ian S. says: Ladies and gents, Roger N. Please don’t all throw
your panties at once.
06/09/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/09/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: good to hear roger – maybe you could write some
reviews
06/09/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
has closed their Yelp account and is no longer a
registered yelper.
06/09/2007 Robin R. says: An example of Seattle passive-aggression and moral
finger-wagging: I sometimes transport a disabled friend. As a favor,
I pick this person up from work and/or retail stores.
This means I park my car using the friend’s disabled
parking permit, then retrieve said friend. Many times
I have returned to my car, with my disabled friend, to
an anonymous note waiting under my windshield wiper.
The writers deem that I “don’t look handicapped”,
claim they’ve called law enforcement, make assumptions
about my morality, and sometimes threaten me. I
similarly helped out a different disabled friend where
I used to live several states away, and literally
never had this happen. First off, I don’t know what a disabled person
supposed to “look” like. I doubt even a physician
could determine a fully clothed person’s disability
status from the distance these writers apparently had
when they viewed me. How morally pompous can one get?
Secondly, if the message is important to throw out
threats, why don’t they have the ovaries to tell me
to my face? I can’t imagine anything more
passive-aggressive.
06/09/2007 g g. says: So you’ve returned to your car to find a nasty note,
which indicates you weren’t around to see who placed
it there. And yet, you deduce it was a female who is a
Seattle native. Did they leave a “born and raised”
lipstick imprint on the note? I had one on my car
once calling me a proud f*ck because I parked too
close to the line on one side whilst rushing into an
establishment to pick up a sick friend. I didn’t
assume the gender or native residency of the writer. I
was just glad I didn’t see who put it there because I
would have gone to jail after planting my foot up
their arse. And Roger N. – this, non-Seattleite isn’t buying the
one-sided ‘freeze’ rationalisation. There are enough
rude, judgmental or whiny posts in this thread against
natives to reveal it is certainly not a situation
which can be attributed to or blamed solely on the
locals. When your attitude sucks, so will your
experiences – and that cuts both ways. Finally, when I am operating out of my Seattle home,
the quality of the city is the scenery first …then
the people. I’ve met the same type of people there
that I’ve met in other parts of the country and the
world, so the idea that they make the area doesn’t
really apply. Thus, non-constant is the different
environments and surroundings of a particular place.
At least that is how it is for me…
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
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06/10/2007 Scott F. says: Roger, I’m wondering if you live in my building – I
know the woman you describe below! Actually, I had
forgotten about these incidences, but I’ve had a few –
seemed to me like road rage for people who don’t
drive. You might be right in the way you describe
the characteristics of people from the NW, but I know
I’m not going to change an entire culture and I don’t
want to – currently just trying to fit in and if that
becomes such a pain that it overrides living up here,
then I’ll go somewhere else. Some of the things you
describe were glaring when I first moved here, now
they aren’t so bad – in my case, I’m adjusting by
doing more stuff alone than I did in the past. More
sightseeing, touristy things, and less ‘friend’
things. “The biggest thing that gets to me is when some 40ish
woman decides to go out of her way to scowl, hiss, or
otherwise chastise someone whose otherwise minding
their own business for some minor infraction of the
unwritten Seattle social code. “
06/10/2007 Robin R. says: G.G.: I do not assume that the people who leave the
notes are female. If you’re assuming that from my
mentioning that I wonder why they don’t “have the
ovaries” to say it to my face, I could easily turn it
around and ask why I would use the term “have the
balls” when I don’t know if they’re male. I don’t necessarily assume that the note writers are
female, but it’s interesting that I did not have this
problem when I helped out a disabled friend in my old
city. Seattle is not unique in having a lot of
transplants, it just seems to think it is.
06/10/2007 Robin R. says: Correction, second paragraph, should be “I don’t
necessarily assume that the note writers are NATIVES”.
My bad.
06/10/2007 This post was removed because the yelper who wrote it
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06/10/2007 Devin G. says: It seems to me that many of these recent posts are
merely perpetuating the hostility and stigma of the
“Seattle Freeze.” I’m a native of the “other”
Washington and also spent a few years in North
Carolina before moving out here. I can honestly say
that I have experienced far worse there than I have
here. In NC people are nice to your face but tend to
be very judgmental and superficial. I’m not trying to
make a blanket statement- these were just some of my
experiences. I’m also not trying to minimize the experiences people
have had here. I know several people who have felt
the Seattle Freeze. Just last week a woman drew a
crowd while repeatedly screaming at me and calling me
an “f-ing b****” no less than 20 times- all because I
parked a foot from the line in my space- a foot FROM
the line, not over the line. However, in the three years I have been here I have
had almost entirely positive experiences. I’m a
little shy and heard about the Seattle Freeze before I
moved here and was a bit worried. I am lucky enough
to work in a place where there are several other
like-minded people with similar interests. Only
hanging out with work friends can be a bit restricting
though. I had to get outside my comfort zone and put
myself out there. I joined an ultimate league, got
involved with local craftsters, volunteered with
organizations where I have found great people and also
met some great people to go to shows with. I even
met some awesome people who are now some of my closest
friends by responding to or posting on the platonic
craigslist section. While that carries a bit of a
stigma because people sometimes don’t feel like they
should have to “advertise” for friends, it’s a reality
of our times and is becoming pretty commonplace. It
also comes with the assurance that others are also
looking to meet new people. With the exception of a
few restaurants with snobby wait staff, I have found
people here to be pretty polite and nice.
Epic Yelp Freeze Thread [Part 3]
December 14, 200902/28/2007 Phil S. says:
I’ve lived her all but 6 months of my life and I still
haven’t experienced this freeze. People say Hi to me
or at the very least smile. As far as it being hard to
make friends, “real” friends are typically made
unexpectedly on your particular road of life. I think
Michelle hit the nail on the head with the words self
fulfilling prophesy. If the majority of Seattleites
today were originally from here, which I seriously
doubt, there might be such a thing as the Seattle
Freeze and the native Indians could tell you more
about that. There’s an old saying: When in Rome, do as
the Romans do. But people whether they are form here
or not just do as they damn well please. That’s life
in this big city.
02/28/2007 g g. says: Brilliant post at the PI blog. The self-awareness and
honesty regarding your own tendencies were also rather
refreshing. When we spend extended time in the area, we try to get
our little one into My Gym in Bellevue. Not only is it
good for interaction between the children, but parents
also engage. We’ve not made what we’d consider
friends, but that takes time – and we’re okay with the
brief yet poignant nods along the path of life. Thanks for the reminder regarding Zoomazium. We keep
meaning to get up there.
02/28/2007 Jenny B. says: thanks for the suggestion g.g. I think there’s a
Little Gym on this side of the lake too… will have
to check it out.
btw are you getting snow over there?? crazy!
03/05/2007 g g. says: Thanks for the Little Gym referral – more options when
we’re in the area. Indeed, we did get some snow back then. Much of the
icy roads and accumulation didn’t make its way down to
our area, fortunately. To think we traveled to
Seattle, only to experience Chicago-like weather. Odd
that.
03/05/2007 Ian S. says: Here’s a spin on the whole freeze commentary that I
haven’t seen mentioned just yet. I’ve moved here because people seem to be genuinely
happy with their lives. Also no one is even close to as aggressive as I am
which is also very entertaining (to me at least). It is like my favorite parts of the bay area and nyc.
Like the bay only being demented is not required, and
like nyc only not as in your face and differently
egotistical. uptight seattleite egotistical.
http://www.seattleweekly… I’m a big fan of the non-judgmental judgmentalism. I
find it hilarious. Only those who make judgments and
talk about them are acceptable to be judged! š So I enjoy the freeze. I don’t find passive people
very interesting for the most part so it saves me a
lot of trouble š
03/05/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: non-judgemental judgementalism! yes! that’s it!! and the passiveness seems to manifest as back biting
which is also entertaining, but at the same time
disturbing. well, not exactly seems to, it does – I’ve heard ppl
say pretty nasty things about those who they call
friend – present company included but I’m demented, so don;t listen to me
03/05/2007 Katherine S. says: Passive-aggression rules Seattle. The “Freeze” is
just a part of that.
03/05/2007 g g. says: That whole “smile, jab” bit is so ……..Asian. š
03/06/2007 Jenni G. says: I have lived in WA all my life and I know how all the
“transplants” feel. I have moved around the state and
have lived in Seattle now for 3 years, and I’m just
now making some friends. I find myself doing the same
things though, so it’s a catch 22. Its what we DO
here in Seattle. Passive-Agressive at it’s best! I
have found, with living with someone from the
east-coast that things are much different in the rest
of the world. If you look tacky, they’ll tell you.
Here, we’ll tell you you look great, and once you walk
away, snicker to ourselves that you looked horrible.
*sigh* It’s beautiful out here, but it really is
freezing.
03/06/2007 Brian H. says: I’m with that hater Howard.
03/06/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: are you referring to Howie – the guy whose review of
Seattle said something like “Seattle Sucks”?? if so – how passive agressive of you!! hee hee
03/06/2007 David H. says: This thread should die. hee hee (I am a copycat)
03/06/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I don’t think it ever will – too many noobies with
culture shock! I think it’s more of that (i.e. culture shock) than
actual hate….
03/06/2007 David H. says: Sounds more and more like whiny pee pants. Grumpy and Punchy, D-still-gots-love-for-ya-H
03/06/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: that’s whiny pee freezin’ my ass off pants to you,
mister!
;o)
03/06/2007 Sylvia L. says: dude, i was thinking the same thing when i clicked on
the thread for the 94thtimes, that this is the
immortal thread.
03/07/2007 g g. says: Natives should just expose their bellies and deal with
the stereotype, whether or not it’s about them. Rejected transplants should accept that perhaps
they’re not worth knowing beyond casual, or have
effectively whined their way into a freeze. The rest of us will continue to chuckle at the thread
and get on with life.
03/09/2007 Zach Cares G. says: I froze someone out last night at the bar. Oops!
03/09/2007 natalie l. says: if your nice to someone the reaction is a bit like
they are just waiting for you to pull out your shank
and stick ’em – my friends + me are transplants few of my friends are
actually from seattle, but that is neither here nor
there
seattle breeds stick togetherness weather or not your
native or transplant maybe that seattle of 20yrs ago left town and took its
sense of humor with it. and that word polite-ugh like the store Polite
Society-it breeds the freeze…..people maybe polite
but it doesnot give them manners, and that is
something seattle folk seem to sorely lack.
03/09/2007 robby m. says: My two cents on the freeze thing:
I lived in Boston for 3 years before moving here,
where it’s sort of the exact opposite. People are not
nice AT ALL to you up front, but if you can crack
their shells, they’re the most amazing people in the
world, but it’s damn hard to do, unless you have some
kind of social in with a lot of people. I didn’t, I
moved there not knowing anyone and ended up working
for myself, so I felt really isolated most of the
time. That sucked. Seattle on the other hand, seems like there’s tons of
people that don’t mind, and even enjoy, hanging out
with people on a really casual level, but keeping a
certain distance. I look at it almost the same way as
the new england harshness, except easier to swallow.
Yeah, it might be a little weird hitting that wall
when you weren’t expecting it, but making real friends
is work, it doesn’t happen overnight, and if no one
had any boundaries, those lasting friendships you DO
end up making might not seem as special.
03/10/2007 Ian S. says: Interesting take, Robby. I think it’s just a question of tools. A metaphorical nutcracker is replaced with some WD40
and “jiggling it” to losen things up. Perhaps some Old Blue Eyes lounge music goes more
toward an acoustic nirvana ballad (can you call them
ballads?). Just a new spin on your old skills. I’m willing to BYOB to the meetings. Eastcoasters in
Seattle sounds like a fun time for me. People always
took me for a Manhattan native while I was there. If it seems like a NENW [North East meets North West]
booze festival should happen, first round is on me. One caveat: you need to have a story to tell about
getting here or something handled poorly or
brilliantly with the natives. I’m thinking this could be a pretty good turnout of
storytelling anyway. … But would the chill come back in the second act? duh
duh duuhhhhhn
03/19/2007 g g. says: Interesting point, Robby. I wouldn’t entirely dismiss the “freeze”, but wouldn’t
dedicate an inordinate amount of focus or energy into
it either. What you resist persists, and we’ve been so
busy with business matters that we didn’t place much
emphasis on the Seattle natives or social environment.
Not caring provided freedom to just live our lives
when we’re in the area. It led to meeting many people
and becoming involved in social and civic activities
outside of business. Granted, we’ve only commuted here
for a few months a year, but we also have independent
personalities and manage our expectations. We knew a woman who moved to Seattle from the Palm
Springs, CA area – but before this she was from
Virginia horse country. Dinner parties, cocktails and
salons were commonplace for her in that life, so she
thought it’d be the same and dug right in with
multiple “hello” events. Eventually, when we were in
town, we invited her to our home there but the other
couples in the neighborhood didn’t “reciprocate” soon
enough for her. She frequently bitched about how
people in Seattle were cold and rude, but her endless
sniping drove away the couples who’d originally
responded. We didn’t see her again until recently, and
a kinder, less abrasive and wiser woman stood in her
place. Her husband had also left her, so that may have
been a splash of cold water regarding her negativity.
One never knows. In any case, now she can’t keep up
with all of the invitations in the post.
03/19/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: sounds like she’s happier sans husband…
03/19/2007 g g. says: His leaving was devastating, actually. She spent a
great deal of time seeking energy and affirmation
outside of herself, and his departure caused her to
re-evaluate and shape up. He’s sailing the world and
living his dreams. Now she has to develop a few of her
own. 03/19/2007 Michael O. says: Maybe she did the Seattle thing and gave the husband
the freeze. Sorry, couldn’t resist. š On the whole freezy thing, got to admit, it’s
something that’s on my mind a lot, though I’ve tried
to work on toning down the “sniping” of late,
particularly to those not receptive of it (though they
will usually do the Seattle thing and smile and nod
and agree with you instead of telling you it bugs them
š ) It’s such a hot button issue, but at the same time if
you’re sitting at home staring out a rainy window and
feeling isolated and not used to feeling that way it’s
hard not to think about. No one is required to invite me to anything, or be my
friend or aquaintance or whatever but what bugs me the
most is when I am genuinely being friendly toward
someone I don’t know and they regard me with suspicion
as though I have some sort of alterior motive or want
something from them because I am talking to someone I
don’t know and being nice to them. I realize people
have their reasons but it IS possible that someone
could be nice or friendly for no particular reason
other than that they want to be.
03/19/2007 Michael O. says: Well then good for both of them, breakups are hard,
but sometimes necessary for people to move on.
03/20/2007 Justin C. says: In my experience its all about what type of person you
are. I am an introverted individual. I enjoy peace and
quiet. I enjoy shopping at a grocery store where no
one will approach me or try to create friendship out
of thin air. Im not a snob. Im not rude. I just am not
outgoing. My family is all I need and I dont require
or feel the need to strife to cultivate friendships
outside those boundaries. Im not lonely at all. Having said that, Im from California. I never really
enjoyed the people there. There is a 6th sense of
crumby people doing crumby things around you at all
times. I had friends but there seemed to be an ever
changing sea of morals and direction in their lives.
It just became more trouble than it was worth. If you are a private person I dont think you will feel
a freeze, rather some much needed social
simplification. If I was young and looking for a new
city and friends it would be my last choice. If you
are married with children and thats all you need in
life, its perfection. I dont claim to represent any group of people or
geographical location, I am merely sharing how I as a
person fit into the Seattle scheme. To some Im sure I
sound cold or have some social issues which may be
true. The fact still remains, I am this person. As
Popeye would say, “I am what I am and thats all that I
am…” I love Seattle and I dont really care if it loves me
back.
03/20/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: ::smiling::
::nodding::
{bug crawls by}
03/20/2007 terrell m. says: i was just discussing this thread/topic with a friend
last night and said that sometimes you’re in a place
in your life where you just don’t want to let more
people in. so, maybe you freeze people out during that
time…oh, well. i’ve been in situations where someone
has been really nice to me and i could tell they
wanted to start a friendship or get closer and i just
wasn’t feeling it. shouldn’t you be able to choose who
you let into your life? that’s one thing in life you
have a fair amount of control over. anyway, just another take on it. i’ve already
commented on how i haven’t really encountered the
freeze here (see above). but maybe it’s because i
freeze people out without really seeing it that way.
03/20/2007 Doug C. says: For what it’s worth, I’m not sure that there is any
specific unfriendliness in Seattle compared to any
other city. This is the fifth city I’ve moved to in
the past decade and I would call all of them pretty
similar in this respect. There are people in every
city who may not be interested in doing things for
whatever reason (see above comment) and people who
will want to introduce you to their extended family
within 60 seconds of meeting you. In a public setting, there probably is a broader trend
for people to be a little bit less approachable. Just
standing in line, it’s a little bit less likely to
strike up a conversation as the person next to you has
a decent chance of talking on a cellphone or listening
to their iPod. Just sitting at a red light watching
people cross the street, this seems to be about one in
five people. I don’t really see this as
Seattle-specific though.
03/20/2007 g g. says: Nice try, Michael. š Sometimes it takes a wake up
call like she experienced to shake her out of her
funk. In any case, they’ll both survive. Last I heard
she had booked a cruise around the world for six
months, and her real estate business is thriving. Can’t say why those you meet are treating you as if
there’s a motive for your friendliness, but it’s not
been our experience. Then again, I’m not necessarily
friendly. š I’ve lived in various parts of the world. The issues
described aren’t really Seattle-specific from my
experience and perspective.
03/20/2007 Julia Z. says: Sometimes I’m not friendly back if someone is friendly
because I’m tired, but usually, I’m thrilled about
making new friends even in the city. I’m probably too
open to it, in fact, but I prefer to be friendly and
trusting and if once in a while that burns me a
little, once in a while it results in great
friendships… I have two
friendly-to-a-stranger-in-Bell evue real friends that
I’ve been hanging out with for four years now. My 7
year old daughter’s favorite non-school/non-family
friend is their 4.5 year old daughter; she was 6
months old when we met them. š Anyway, those of you that feel like being friendly
once in a while, don’t be discouraged if it’s not a
lovefest the first time you try it. Try again. It’s
not hopeless. And it’s spring; people will probably be
nicer if the weather gets nice, for a little while
anyway. LOL
03/20/2007 Michael O. says: Oh I know, I’m like that Chumbawumba song, I get
knocked down, but I get up again. š Also, not everyone I’ve met since moving here is
suspicious of course. I’ve met some really awesome
people here and including one of my very best and
dearest friends since moving here. Didn’t mean to
imply otherwise. As for the others, maybe they were
having a bad day. Maybe they had bad experiences in
the past, maybe they just have trust issues, maybe the
stars weren’t aligned? Who knows? And yes nice weather definitely helps. We need our
sun. It helps to see if every once in a while so you
know it’s still there. š
03/20/2007 Calvin C. says: You can be my friend!
We can go eat somewhere?
03/20/2007 Christian C. says: Regarding the last few posts I thought I’d chime in.
I noticed a considerable change when I got married. I
think for both me and my wife we both ended up just
spending a lot more time together and really wanting
to be alone together. I wonder if one factor is how
many young people are married and how it maybe tends
to change how social married couples are. Before she and I got together and I was single for a
while and riding a motorcycle and bar hoping it wasn’t
too hard to meet people, and I can’t believe that I
actually divulged so many of my …um… adventures to
my future wife since we were “just friends” during
that time and she was also my rock climbing partner
(although to be honest, I was totally in love with her
then, too). She’s lived here for about 17 years (a California
transplant) and I’ve been here for 7 years. We have a
nice circle a friends but she’s closer to more people
than I am. And I’d have to admit I think I can see
where people are coming from with this whole Seattle
Freeze, although I lived in NYC in Manhattan for 9
years including going to college there and I’d say it
was worse. I think a lot of it just has to do with what happens
in big cities. I think it affects a lot of big cities
and also just American culture in general. There
seems to be at trend of everyone working more, having
less leisure time, sleeping less. That translates to
less time for keeping the friends you’ve got and
making new ones. Hey, maybe online communities like Yelp are the key,
heck maybe that’s why they’re so successful…there
what communities will become in the 21st century!
Hmm…kind of scary too. Isn’t it weird when someone
tells you they have a small circle of friends and yet
there are people on myspace.com <http://myspace.com> with like 300,000
friends. Well, if anything, I’m glad it’s going to be spring
soon. I think a big part of the Seattle freeze is
that people just don’t want to go out when it’s gross
out. š
03/20/2007 g g. says: Fun Honda.
03/28/2007 Brandie A. says: Wow, this conversation is a year old and still going!
It’s really interesting reading everyones comments. I
do think there is a Seattle “freeze,” but that it’s
not intentional. I grew up in Juneau, Alaska, which
to me, is like a mini-Seattle (except it rains
more)…cliquish, old-school, holding on to a bygone
era, too comfortable in its isolation. For Alaskans,
the term for the rest of the United States is
“Outside.” Ha! I think there is an element of that to
Seattle. This may sound strange, but Seattle reminds
me of a teenager: self-absorbed, cliquish, a little
insecure, not ready to be an adult, but not quite a
kid anymore; wants to make new friends, but not quite
sure how….and of course, striving to be what every
teenager wants…to be COOL! With that said, I love it here. Like many of you, I’ve
traveled a lot and lived in other places including
Europe. Other cities are definitely friendlier (by
far), but I have to admit, I’m a little wary when
people are overly friendly…like “what’s wrong with
them…are they crazy?” Sad, but true. We keep things
close to our chest here, but when you’re in, you’re in
forever. My best friend, going on 20 years now,
pursued me like a stalker (okay, I exaggerate), but
she really made an effort to be my friend and I love
her for it! So, strive to break through that ice and
inside you will find a warm heart.
03/28/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: great analogy Brandie!!
I have felt a definitely lack of esteem vibe-
especially here on the island…
04/11/2007 Robin R. says: I like this topic. I moved to Seattle 11 years ago
from the Midwest and have never quite understood the
social scene here. It’s like the cliques here have
some secret handshake I don’t know. I’d like to share a recent example I had with the
Seattle Freeze as it extends to Seattlites speaking to
other Seattlites online..
I have been acquainted with a woman I’ll call “Jenna”,
who lives in Seattle, for ~4 years. She and I have
some common and somewhat unusual interests. Among our
common interests was that we both had the same breed
of dog. There is a local group for the breed that
gets together, so very occassionally over this time
(~3x annually) I invited her to various related
events. Every single time she declined and never
reciprocated despite that she’s definitely not a
shut-in. Never before had I offered any negativity
about her declinations. I was also been the one to
initiate contact with her the majority of the time on
instant messenger and on our blogs Was she sending me
a hint? Maybe, but at the same time, she complained in
blog about her lack of real connections, how
unfriendly Seattle was, and so on. Her excuse for not attending the dog-related events
was that one of her older dogs was sick and she didn’t
want to leave that one home alone. Unfortunately,
that dog recently died. So, this week I invited her
again to an event. She declined on instant messenger
with a new excuse that, silently to myself, I doubted.
I was on my way out to lunch, and merely replied,
verbatim, “I didn’t think you’d come. You never do
seem interested.” Then I logged off and left the
house. That was it. I had no further words with Jenna. I did
not blow up, cuss or otherwise get nasty. However, on
her blog she called me “pissy”, “immature” and told me
to grow the f–k up. If this first retort after years
of trying to get together with this person makes me
immature and pissy, so be it. No, I won’t be inviting
her anymore. I do find it odd when Seattlites only want to
socialize online. I enjoy my long-distance online
friends, but when there is a Seattlite who is
unburdened and able-bodied as Jenna certainly is, I
want to use the internet to facilitate in-person
get-togethers. I don’t want the internet to replace
get-togethers. At the very least, I would appreciate
someone who never intends to get together in person to
be upfront about that. Honesty, how “pissy” and
“immature”!
04/11/2007 Jon L. says: You’re clearly presenting your story as an example,
but I’d say that is more reflective of that individual
than Seattlites generally.
04/11/2007 Robin R. says: While every case is unique, I think my case
demonstrated some commonalities with other Seattle
Freeze encounters: a) Woman claims to be very lonely,
but doesn’t take offers to be less lonely, b) Prefers
chatting on the internet to real meetings, and c)
Comes up with excuses for each invitation, rather than
being upfront that she’s not interested. d) When
mildly confronted about her lack of interest, she
becomes hostile.
04/11/2007 Janeane S. says: I’m just speculating, Robin. But is it possible that
she just didn’t like you enough to meet you, but
didn’t want to offend you or hurt your feelings by
overtly indicating lack of interest? (Does this remind
anyone of the Chip fiasco sort of?) Perhaps she
thought she was letting you down easy by having an
excuse. And she continued to chat with you online
because that was harmless enough and she could keep
you at a comfortable distance? But then you breached
that comfort zone with your mild confrontation; hence,
her hostility. Just a theory. Trying to make sense
out of your weird sitch… OR maybe she was scared to meet someone from the
internet? I mean, there’s harmless internet chatting,
but a face-to-face meeting makes it too “real” for
her? OR she’s just a social ‘tard or one of those ingrates
who deserves her loneliness.
04/11/2007 Marissa S. says: Funny…I moved here a year ago and have yet to make a
friend who is from Seattle….all the people I have
been able to develop friendships are
transplants…..coincidence?
04/11/2007 Ian S. says: I vote “tard.” Then again, I’ve never been unwilling to meet just
about anyone I’ve talked to online that has been
interesting. Perhaps that’s because I am a huge
fearless guy, but I think that is incidental. It is true though. Lots of people know that they are
repugnant in person and would rather play around and
enjoy the attention than appear in person and get
rejected. Alternatively, peoples constant fear of that rejection
makes it a reality where it might not be the case. So
they stay at home and bemoan their lack of attachments
where they make every effort to bat them away. Every
interested party is a stalker. Every romantic
interaction is an “almost rape.” Drama drama drama.
http://www.encyclopediad… Also see the related topic of Internet Disease:
http://www.encyclopediad… Man I’ve taken this thread into an ugly direction. I
should be ashamed of myself.
04/12/2007 Sarah B. says: Nah Ian, you should be proud. š
04/12/2007 Dianne B. says: I can’t blame the Seattle Freeze for my isolation. I
moved here 10 years ago and started working at a large
company immediately. The demands of the work had been
so intense that with the exception of my doctor,
dentist, etc, II didn’tt know a single person who
didn’t work at that company. In comparison with my
life during the previous decade in Alaska where I met
many people through university classes, my children’s
school, and other activities I’d say that the
difference is that while in Alaska I was an active
community member with friends, activities and so
forth, after years of being here I didn’t feel like a
member of the community at all. Fortunately, I took a break from work and started to
participate in activities again. It feels much better
to be here now because I’ve spent time gettng to know
people and doing a few things. As for the freeze, I
may not be from here but I am probably guilty of
perpetuating it. It’s about having time and how I will
spend the few moments I have. I am back at work for a
few months at least. The precious time has evaporated.
If I manage to have a few lunches with old friends at
work, spend some time with my daughter, my son and my
boyfriend and finish the few commitments I made before
this job started I’ll call it good. But of course I
am sitting here on the internet ignoring my boyfriend
while I interact with all of you. š I don’t know if that helps. It’s not that I don’t want
to connect, but it’s rare that I can make the time.
Isolation.
04/12/2007 Joseph B. says: I grew up throughout the South, moving place to place
due to an Air Force dad. I’ve now lived in Seattle now
for 20 years, and yes, it’s chillier here than most
places. I do have a theory on why that is, of course… The South is friendly because everyone who lives there
pretty much grew up there (outside of, say, Atlanta or
Miami). Therefore, they all feel like they belong to
the community. This sense of belonging expresses
itself, even if it’s just smiling and saying hi to
some stranger in passing. My theory on the Seattle chill is that we live in a
town full of transplants, and therefore no one feels
invested enough in their surroundings to bother. They
all behave like they’re in temporary housing. “This is
cool for now, I guess.” Think of every apartment
building you’ve lived in or visited on Capitol Hill,
and you’ll know what I mean. On the other hand, all the people I know who actually
grew up in Seattle are extremely friendly, and they’re
all very bewildered by this chilly reputation!
04/12/2007 Jon L. says: Well said Robin – I’ll agree with 3 of the 4. I don’t
see hostility as a common trait like the others. Dianne — I’m working my way out of the same boat. A
handful of close, [married], friends and work people.
It’s very easy to work yourself crazy here (maybe
that’s not just here, dunno). Certainly takes some
effort to build new social circles – it’s easy to stay
in your zone and end up, well, without ‘people’.
04/12/2007 Rachel S. says: Hmm. I have the impression that I have a lot more
small interactions with strangers (book shelvers,
supermarket stockers, whoever) in Seattle than I ever
did in DC or Chicago or San Diego, but as I can’t
recall ever being actively friendly toward anyone I
can’t speculate on what their response might have been
had I tried it!
04/12/2007 Robin R. says: Janeane S.: I’d already met “Jenna” twice in real
life at a group for another common interest. Overall, I’m over this specific situation, but I just
do not understand the social climate here, and I’ve
been here 11 years.
04/12/2007 g g. says: It can also come down to how one perceives the
internet, time available, and how one views social
interaction. For some, the internet is an extension of their lives
and a tool for more outings and meetings. For others,
it is something to do whilst passing a few extra
moments. Meeting a person here and there may occur if
there is a great connection, but it’s not a huge
focus. Time is another issue, and if one is busy –
prioritising will naturally lead to spending time with
what one deems important versus trying to hook up with
strangers. Finally, there are some who view
interactions as preludes. They might work harder to
create follow up meetings, dinners, lunch because they
enjoyed the engagement. There are others who can enjoy
a diverse range of contact (virtual, store clerk, etc)
and either chalk it up to one of life’s many
pleasantries – or pursue it if it’s a fit. When two people aren’t on the same page, assumptions
can prevail and lead to misunderstandings or
overreactions. On the other hand, some believe
“letting others down easy” is an acceptable way to
respond. I’m the sort who’ll just come out and say I’m
not interested, but have found decades of
straightforwardness is not a free pass, either. Many
who say they prefer it still become hurt, angry,
judgmental, or defensive. So either way, one can end up with unnecessary drama.
04/12/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: interesting theory Joseph, but many cities are full of
transplants (SF Chicago NYC) and do not have the
chilly rep here’s a possible theory: the culture here seems to
operate on social interaction based around some sort
of activity rather than just for it’s own sake. if a
noob tries to “get together to hang out” they are
viewed as needy, pushy, strange. natives will give
folks a lot of latitude – they will actually return
such an overture with an offer to come to this or that
community activity, or some such. Transplants are cold
because they feel they found this place first – now
you, the noob, are here adding to the
parking/traffic/housing problems and you suck.
(remember noob is relative. you may think hey – it’s
been 5 years, but to a 15 year vet, you are a noob).
we could go on forever…
04/12/2007 Phil S. says: This will be my last post on this topic because while
it is full of fun, insightful and amusing discussion
it is the never-ending topic. Why? because a.) it is
totally subjective and b.) there are just way too many
variables (including the 4 below) that make up the
buzz phrase “The Seattle Freeze”. We’re talking about
the complexities of human behavior here as juxtaposed
to the environment in which we live. We might as well
try to calculate all the possible variables for PI. For what it’s worth, here are 4 points I’d like to
make. 1. Seattle is a beautiful and desirable city and
people who come here and decide they love it enough to
live here take ownership of “their” new city.
2. I believe if you could poll the entire city asking
the question “Were you born and raised here?”, the
answer would be for the most part no and so-called
“natives” of Seattle would be in fact a huge minority. 3. We are all individuals with individual strengths
and weaknesses and let’s face it, no matter where we
are or where we go, we bring our baggage (literal and
emotional) with us. 4. Real friends are usually made when you aren’t
planning or expecting it. Things click spiritually,
emotionally, there’s compatibility there, similar
interests and passions and even intelligence, etc.
Whether or not you are going to make a real friend in
Seattle is like trying to predict the weather in the
wintertime here. I’ve had my close friends more than
30 years now and I have several acquaintances. And you
know what? That’s enough for me. I met my wife in a
night club (bar) ; ) and that was the last place I
expected to make a new friend let alone my future
wife. My best male friend, I hardly ever see anymore
because he’s married to an equally as old friend of
mine and has a 8 year old daughter. Yet we are as
close as we ever were when we saw each other all the
time. I wouldn’t trade those close friends for all the
acquaintances in the world. I’m fortunate I have the old friends I do and I
sincerely hope everyone who has posted here or will
post here ends up (if not already) with such real
friends as I. Sure, there may be people who don’t care
to pursue a friendship with me but I bet if my life
were in danger, those same people would be the first
to pull me out of a burning car and come visit me in
the hospital to see how I’m doing.
04/12/2007 Craig H. says: Okay, it’s time for me to fess up: the Seattle Freeze
— all my fault. I accept full responsibility. Sorry for the confusion.
04/12/2007 g g. says: Here’s something interesting…or not. š Top 25 friendliest cities according to a survey taken
a few yers ago by Travel & Leisure magazine and AOL.
More than 500,000 people took part in the survey which
asked respondents to rate cities in various categories
including the cleanest city (Portland), the prettiest
city (San Francisco), and the city with the best
nightlife (New Orleans). http://www.travelandleis… 1. Nashville
2. Honolulu
3. San Antonio
4. Austin
5. Twin Cities
6. New Orleans
7. Portland
8. San Juan
9. Santa Fe
10. Seattle
11. San Diego
12. Chicago
13. Houston
14. Orlando
15. Denver
16. Tampa/St. Petersburg
17. Las Vegas
18. Phoenix/Scottsdale
19. San Francisco
20. Philadelphia
21. Boston
22. New York
23. Miami
24. Washington, D.C.
25. Los Angeles
04/12/2007 Marissa S. says: Jon, it isn’t hostility….it just seems like the
friendliness (which there is a lot of) is a polite
facade. Sure, the people are very kind…but getting
past the acquaintance stage seems to be the problem. And it isn’t that i am isolating myself, I have made
quite a few transplant friends in the year that I have
been here. But no one who I have tried to become
friends with who is from Seattle has ever bitten. And
the way it happens is always the same too. Just sayin’.
04/12/2007 g g. says: Gender might also play a role, although it is yet
another generalisation. Perhaps men are more able to
sustain friendships which don’t revolve around
constant activity or contact, whereas women as more
social beings might. Again, very general, since I tend
to fall more into the category of what Phil described. Also, the mere act of trying to get together seems
less likely to lead to characterisations – though
sometimes it might. Method or attitude could also lead
to a certain reaction. Indeed, many unknown
variables, including the other side of the story or
unanswered questions which might shed more light on
why a situation occurred. Robin – welcome to Yelp. You joined and jumped right
into the Seattle Freeze thread. I look forward to
reading your reviews.
04/12/2007 Ian M. says: Robin, is it possible that “Jenna” just wasn’t
interested in a whole event that centered around you
particular breed of dogs? One must consider level of
interest outside of the fact that the two of you
shared something in common. If this is the only
metric by which you have judged her receptiveness, it
seems to present too narrow a spectrum to extrapolate
a meaningful conclusion. I mean, there are people who
enjoy drinking a beer, and then there are people who
enjoy drinking beer, attend beer festivals, and home
brew–and some of the latter group probably know those
in the former group. And what is Santa Fe doing on that list? Definitely
the odd egg there–it’s a town of 70,000, not a
“city.” A beautiful, sleepy town in the clouds,
admittedly, but not a “city.”
04/12/2007 Janeane S. says: I can’t believe NYC fared so poorly. I thought it was
a way friendlier city than Seattle in the 3 years I
lived there, in terms of making and maintaining real
friendships.
04/12/2007 Ian M. says: You have to ask yourself, though, what kind of
credibility can you give to a magazine poll on such a
topic? “Friendly” is a vague word at best. As a general rule, I can’t pay much credence to
subjective lists published in magazines or newspapers.
04/12/2007 Kevin W. says: My first time in this thread. I just finished reading
the article and it really hit home for me. I’ve been
in Seattle for almost 2 years now and I’m finding it
hard to make friends who aren’t FOWW (Friends Only
While Working) [nice acronym Erika] My experience has been of the kind where I meet some
cool people at some event, exchange contact info and
then I invite to do other stuff; but after multiple
declines or conflict schedules I just stop asking
because I’ve noticed the efforts aren’t being
reciprocated. Maybe it’s just my compatibility with
the people I’ve met, but back in San Francisco I
always appreciated the “call me anytime we’ll hang
out” friendliness or the invites to random parties by
people I just met. I’ll have to give it more time I guess since other
people in this thread have said it’s taken them years
to form a social network. It also doesn’t help living
in the Eastside suburbs…but maybe one day I’ll be
that guy whose house is where all the fellas hang out
at to get away from the gf/wifey.
04/12/2007 g g. says: Neither would I. Even if it was an official poll in a
whitepaper, it’s still subjective. Nonetheless, it is
a larger number of experiences than a dozen. I don’t
know how many were polled to lead to the article in
the opening post, but it has nonetheless led to an
extensive thread. There are many on that list which don’t match my
experience. There were some unpleasant encounters, but
nothing which would lead me to characterise them as
less friendly than the others.
04/12/2007 Ian M. says: Googling “seattle freeze,” this thread is #2 after the
original Seattle Times article. OMG, we’re part of the problem! š
04/12/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: really at this point i so do not care
I am only here cuz huz wants to stay
otherwise – I don;t love it I don;t hate it
I ‘d just rather not
04/12/2007 Robin R. says: Ian M.: good point about levels of interest in a
topic, although I’m unsure it’s applicable here.
“Jenna” has four of these dogs, actively posts on a
list about the breed, and so on. In fact, she
recently just got a new one. I agree with you about Santa Fe: it’s a great town.
I love the galleries, and the people are friendly, but
it’s not really a “city” in my eyes. Perhaps the
voters considered it one because it’s highly visited
and known. I’m surprised Branson, Missouri didn’t make the list
as it’s also a tourist destination. I went there a
couple of years ago on business and was amazed at the
friendliness. People talked to me in line at the
store, at the hotel, wherever. I’m not necessarily
into conservativism and country music as is the case
with many Branson residents and visitors, but I sure
wish we had that level of friendliness here.
04/12/2007 Robin R. says: g.g.: Thanks for the welcome š
04/12/2007 Brad C. says: I thought Branson was Ned Flanders’ version of Las
Vegas… š
04/12/2007 Brad C. says: I thought of an analogy today and I’m not sure if it
fits but the social situation in Seattle feels like
the college roommate you rarely saw and almost always
communicated with you by using notes. You’re not sure if they are being helpful (in their
mind) or just condescending. What made me think of this was that my building
management never knocks to see if you’re home and tell
you something but instead slips little informative
notes under the door.
04/12/2007 Robin R. says: Branson IS a little hokey, but the people are friendly
and you can learn a few things from nearly everyone.
People in Seattle are generally more educated, but
what good is that when they won’t talk? I can’t learn
from people who don’t share their knowledge!
04/12/2007 g g. says: Voters considered Santa Fe a city because Santa Fe
considers itself a city. It’s not the population which
dictates the official structure of a municipality.
Bainbridge Island is a city yet has only about 20,000
people. Our Seattle area home is in a city with a
population of 3,000.
04/13/2007 Hanafi L. says: Geebus!.. you guys are still at it? I am the Anti-Freeze.. kookookachoob.
04/16/2007 Sokrates F. says: For those considering Portland, I’d just like to say
that it might not be all that different in terms of
what’s being discussed here. There’s a (much shorter)
thread on Yelp Portland where this has been discussed.
I’ll include that link plus a link to a relevant
article from the Willamette Week. (Props to Julia Z.
for the cross-thread connection.) I’ve also noticed that Portland seems to have
relatively few single people for a city of its size.
Could be due to the “quality of life” factor that
tends to draw couples and families more than singles.
Anyhow, I’ve found that Portland isn’t the greatest
city in which to be over 30 and single. For the record, I relocated from NYC to Portland in
2003 and will be moving to LA this year. Never really
got into the Northwest climate or lifestyle. And as an
actor, I’ve decided I need to be someplace with bigger
and better acting opportunities. <a href="http://www.yelp.com/topi…
http://www.yelp.com/topi…<br /> <a href="http://www.wweek.com/edi…
http://www.wweek.com/edi…<br /> 04/16/2007 Jaz M. says: I’m with you Hanafi, this thread is the epitome of
beating a dead horse. Move on people! Gee-fuckin-bus indeed! :o)
04/16/2007 Mark In The Dark S. says: As a radio person, I’ve lived all over the USA. My
favorite thing about all the moving is experiencing
the different regional vibes I find around the
country. I really do enjoy seeing the very few
differences you see in the diffrent parts of America.
I think we should cherish them. On the other hand, I also see how some of these
differences are negatives. For instance in my home
state of Mississippi… I see how most people are
cool, but that there are too many racist people
there. Same goes for the Pacific Northwest. Most
people are fine, but this “not friendly to newcomers”
thing is a negative. A thing that holds this region
back from greatness. In other words, it keeps the
Pacific Northwest from being what it COULD be. It
exposes a dark side of this region. Wish I had the answer, but I don’t. I do love living
in Portland, and hope it can become a more “open”
place to those of us who are not from here. Just as
we WOULD be open to a Portland person who moved to
Mississippi. Check this article about the subject in Willamette
Week! It’s a pretty good discussion of the subject! <a href="http://www.wweek.com/edi…
http://www.wweek.com/edi…<br />
Mark In The Dark
Portland, my new home
05/25/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: i just read this in a review and I think it sums it up
perfectly: “””We all know that if you talk to a stranger in
Seattle you will be looked at like a drunken and wild
beaver just flew out of your nose. It’s just true, and I’m a native.””” this thread will die with the freeze…which is to say
– probabaly never
05/26/2007 Brandie A. says: Here, here…Miss Mary Ann!
05/31/2007 Kimberley D. says: even though i continue to not believe in this
phenomenon, i have to admit that i’m probably the sort
of person who isn’t very intimidating to approach.
most people are not concerned about interaction with
someone who is carrying a hula hoop, wearing a hat
that resembles a disco ball, has giant multicolored
hair etc. those who do believe it would probably find that
column in the seattle weekly funny though. it’s
supposed to be written by the voice of the
stereotypical condescending, overly PC seattle person
05/31/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: if i saw the person you describe, Kimberly, I would
follow them cuz I’d be sure to have a good time – or
at least a good story!
05/31/2007 Maia H. says: Kimberly – I’m not sure if I really believe in the
freeze, but that column in the weekly, “Uptight
Seattleite” is pretty dayum funny.
http://www.seattleweekly…
05/31/2007 Jennifer C. says: Okay so since this thread is so long I only got about
5 responses deep….. But I do want to share my
thoughts: Having moved here from Long Beach, Cali, I
found it really difficult to make friends. Not
difficult to meet people mind you…just to MAKE
FRIENDS. I’m a pretty outgoing person, and I’ve found
that having since moved here, I’m keeping more to
myself. Why? Well, I got tired of the weird
awkwardness that comes after you say “we should hang
out sometime!” or “yea I’ll call you!’ and
then…..nothing….Unfortunat ely, I found most folks
here (so far) have been disappointingly flaky in that
aspect. Like I read way up at the top of this thread,
Sky C. stated that you’ll talk about how hard it is to
make friends and they’ll TOTALLY agree, but
alas….nothing comes of it. I will say, however,
that when I strike up a conversation with other
females I don’t get the “oh my gawd are you hitting on
me?” worried looks anymore…even though my boyfriend
is right there with me talking to them…..Some people
kinda act like they’ve never been approached by a
stranger, or had a conversation struck up with them
while they’re waiting in line somewhere. Or maybe I
just always have a booger hanging out of my nose…. But I WILL say that so far, the folks on Yelp have
been rad! :o)
05/31/2007 Rebecca L. says: Wow! I have never heard of the Seattle Freeze before,
but now it makes total sense! I’ve been back for 2
years now, and I have been having the hardest time
adjusting/making friends. One of the positive things
about living in california was the fact that I would
call someone up (or they would call me) and say, “hay,
want to go do something?” and the answer was a
constant “yes!” It didn’t matter that I only met that
person once for five minutes, or the fact htat i know
them through a friend. We just hung out. Here, i
feel as if there is a silent barrier that is put up
and that I can’t ask them to hang out with me. Even
if i do (and I have) they keep their distance. Weary
that I might not be a “deep/best” friend material. I must admit, however, that the people I have hung
with on Yelp have been the coolest/awesomest people I
have met in Seattle! I finally feel as if i’m getting
my bearings. It’s strange to say, but some reason, in seattle, you
have to give up making friends, in order to make
friends. Like, you can’t go out of your way to hang
out with someone. It’s such a paradox!
05/31/2007 Jennifer C. says: I agree with everything you say Rebecca! Cali is just
cool like that ;o) haha No but seriously, even though
I’m a native there, that’s just how it is when you
meet people…always like “wanna go to the beach??” I
met one of my best friends at a party like that. We
exchanged numbers, and the next day we were laughing
and joking about how bad our hangovers were while we
layed out by the pool….I miss that easy going style!
05/31/2007 Mark In The Dark S. says: Yep, talk about pervasive!
06/01/2007 g g. says: Like, you can’t go out of your way to hang out with
someone.
—
That brings up a thought. For some, friendships should
flow and not be “work”. For others, valuable
friendships do require effort/work.
06/04/2007 Robin R. says: Recently I went to a meetup.com <http://meetup.com> special interest group
that I’ve attended before. Most of the people are
friendly and make everyone feel very welcome. Well, I
showed up on time, but there were only two people
sitting at the table, both newbies, a male in his 20s
and a female probably in her late 30s or early 40s.
They didn’t know each other and didn’t seem eager to
get acquainted either. I ordered some food at the
cash register, then tried to engage them in
conversation, but they were uninterested. I gave my
name and the man just blinked and nodded at me without
giving his. Neither one smiled. Tried to ask them
how long they’d been interested in the group topic,
but they weren’t having any of that either. The woman, who apparently had been there for a while
before I got there, completely turned her back on me
in her chair for several minutes while she apparently
looked at the menu over the cash register, and it
wasn’t even a big or complicated menu, nor was it
placed a full 90 degrees on her side. I considered
asking the cashier if I could get my food to go.
Finally, two of the meetup regulars showed up late. I waved at the regulars and exclaimed, “Yay, friendly
people! Finally.” Whoops, did I say that? I guess this
passive-aggressive Seattle vibe is rubbing off on me.
06/04/2007 Kevin W. says: Maybe you shouldn’t signed up with the “Society of
Cold Shoulders Meet Up Group” š
06/04/2007 Angie B. says: It’s true! I moved away for about five years and
recently moved back, and I now see all that is bad
about Seattle. THIS is where I learned to become so
reserved! There is almost an holier-than-thou vibe
going on … But I’ll get used to it again. Right?
06/04/2007 Patty W. says: I have lived here for about three years and I am just
now working my way through the freeze. I come from the
south were everyone is overly friendly. It was nothing
for my family growing up to invite over new people for
meals. The table was a common meeting ground for us
all and it carried into adulthood. Here I just think
people tend be so inwardly focused that they often
forget the benefits of meeting someone new. How often
really do you see someone in Seattle wave hi or give
an unwarranted smile? It is something that used to be
so common to me and even I have stopped doing it while
living here. But I must say that I totally agree with
Phil S’s post and after I realized how much I love it
here I have worked very hard to really make it home.
Epic Yelp Freeze Thread [Part 2]
December 14, 200911/28/2006 Tyler H. says:
What does it mean that this topic makes me want to
shut down and not talk to anyone? Actually, I tend to agree with Michelle and Brian.
There probably is a “chill” but its not so much that
people in Seattle are “unfriendly” but rather just
that something about the climate and our sensibilities
makes Seattlites less fond of more superficial
friendliness. Speaking as a born-and-breed native,
I’ve never really noticed the chill. But, my wife
moved her from Texas and she noticed it when she moved
here, so I can’t deny it doesn’t exist. But, at the
same time, I know my wife now prefers “the Seattle
way,” so I think its a bit unfair to talk about the
“Seattle Freeze” like an entirely negative thing. I think that Seattlites prefer smaller and closer
circles of friends. And, as a result we don’t go
around actively making new friends. We’ll meet new
people through our existing friends or through work.
We’re polite and friendly to other people we
encounter, but don’t think to try to befriend the
person sitting next to us at a coffee shop or a bar.
And, we get a little befuddled when someone tries to
befriend like that. Does that make it difficult to meet people if you are
new to the area? Yeah, probably. And, as the Official
Spokesperson for Seattle(tm) (I just voted myself into
the position), I apologize to everyone who feels like
they are left out in the cold. All I can say is that
Seattlites will be your friends if you keep trying. I
know this because many of my friends were born in
distant, misty lands like Illinois or Alabama. And I
even married one of those Texans. I don’t resent people observing that Seattlites might
behave different than people in other parts of the
country. But, I do sort of resent the implication that
the way we behave is in some way “wrong” or “bad.” But, maybe that’s just me shutting down.
11/28/2006 Jon L. says: Aye – with ya Tyler. This native has always had a
couple close friends at any one time. The folks I know
that are social “hubs” are usually Californians or
similar. People seem to have their “thing” up here,
and spending a lot of energy maintaining relationships
is energy not spent on whatever they’re in to.
“Quality not quantity” and all that. While it does
make it hard to sync with people in general, it’s like
an astronomical thing – there will be an eclipse or a
comet passing, and suddenly the person next to you at
the show is open for new connections and talkative.
Brush up on your sun spot prediction skills and look
for the folks that are looking around, or at least at
something other than their feet. Then again, perhaps we’re just descended from a
Sasquatch and a mountain hermit, and we like it this
way.
11/28/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: it seems to me that as this thread has progressed, the
freeze has gone from being judged as wrong and bad to
described as a way of relating to new friends and
acquainances in a more reserved and slower fashion
than many new to the area ppl are used to or
comfortable with.
but as the population increases, it is interesting to
see how or if this changes it’s all good – if folks don’t like it – they’ll leave
i guess
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11/28/2006 Jeff G. says: I’ve been here about 12 years and have, of course,
made some friends. But it IS different. There’s a sort
of reserve about native Washingtonians that’s
different than other states. There’s sort of stronger
social code here than other places. The first time I noticed it was on my first day here
in Seattle and I Jaywalked on a completely empty
street on First Hill. The other people behind me
literally gave me looks like I’d just killed a dog or
something. The other place I really notice it is in
movie theaters. I laugh pretty easily at movies and
I’m always amazed at how quiet so many of the other
theater goers are. Having said all that, the people that I have met who
are natives, are all the type of people who’d give you
the shirt off your back.
11/28/2006 Tyler H. says: Come on, Blake! Don’t sell yourself short! Why only
mention a line or two about Seattle freezing when you
can write a standard five paragraph essay like the
rest of us!!! Oh, and Jeff, can I have my shirt back? It’s cold!
11/28/2006 Laina B. says: Hey DMC- do you have a specific time/date for the
coffee meet-up? Can we do it on a weekend? Seriously,
you should plan this thing. I’ll be there.
11/28/2006 Jaz M. says: Seattle is freezing and so cold that my nipples could
cut glass. I’m just sayin’.
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11/29/2006 Jessica V. says: Having been here a few months,
I don’t think the East Coast is necessarily
friendlier, it’s just we are louder. It’s normal in
NYC, Philly and DC to just talk to everybody all the
time: you yell at the guy behind the deli counter for
getting your order wrong, you laugh at the drunk
teenagers on the subway with the old man sitting on
the seat next to you, you bitch outloud while reading
the newspaper, you ask strangers on the street wearing
cute shoes where they got them, you just…verbalize.
All the time. Seattlites are nice, as far as I can
tell, and they have a beautiful city. But I have to
say, I am really homesick for the loud, rowdy,
pugnacious East.
12/22/2006 G S. says: I’m going on 50 and I moved to Seattle from the
Midwest over 18 years ago. I used to think it was me
until other people started talking about the Freeze.
It really effected my self esteem at first. I have always been friendly and outgoing and have
never had problems finding warm and genuine friends
until I moved here. People here are not friendly or
neighborly in general, merely polite and courteous…
until it come time to make plans or keep a date. I’ve never been blown off so many times anywhere else.
And when I’ve confronted people for simply not
showing up at an arranged event or what-have-you
(without calling, of course) I often was made to feel
like my demands were unreasonable and that I was
somehow being needy and infringing on their
“autonomy.” Sorry, it’s just that I spent a wad on
the dinner I cooked because you said you were coming
over. (Oh, I didn’t think our plans were definite. My
bad.) Or because I turned down subsequent invitations
because I thought I had a prior engagement and now
it’s 9:00 PM on Saturday and I’m left hanging with two
show tickets. (Oh, well I figured you’d just call
someone else to go with you) Now, why would I do
that, when we had plans??? I’ve noticed that the majority of people who deny the
Freeze are natives, while folks from elsewhere are
nearly unanimous in their experience. Could it be
that Seattleites have a completely different criteria
for what constitutes a “friend”? I’ve heard
Seattleites describe feeling “intruded upon” and
“smothered” when going elsewhere and encountering
people who show an interest in them. Another thing I’ve noticed over the years when I’ve
been allowed to momentarily hover near an established
tribe of “friends” is that they’re seldom actually
friends. They’re really more like “frequent social
acquaintances”. They don’t really ever just hang out
around the house and… just hang out. They don’t
know anything about one another’s private
lives—maybe not even met one another’s SO’s. They
don’t appear to become involved in intimate
friendships much—or not for long. I knew one young
woman who changed tribes regularly, moving people
through her life almost in order. When someone got to
know her a little too well, out they went. Almost
like she didn’t want any witnesses. The most telling thing that I ever heard a native say
was while watching an episode of Friends. “AS IF, a
bunch of people are gonna hang out all the time and go
in and out of one another’s houses like that and do
stuff TOGETHER always. Shyhuh, right.” Where I’m from, that’s what friends do.
12/22/2006 Phil S. says: We’re talking about fingerprints and snowflakes here.
There is a freeze In every major city depending on
where you are in it and in every city or town, people
have their reasons for being the way they are. Maybe
it’s a stressful job. Maybe it’s depression. Maybe
they are on some kind of medications. Maybe like, me
they have MS (Like a lot of people in this state do)
and are just plain fatigued at times. That’s just the
tip of the iceberg. To try to figure those people out
is futile. We are individuals with individual
strengths and weaknesses. All we can do is to be who
we are and if we want to say hi to someone who never
says anything and just keeps walking, etc., then so be
it. I’m the only one who has to look at myself in the
mirror. The point is, be your self and don’t look to
others to validate the way you are. Maybe others will
catch on. That’s where I’m at on the subject. Merry
Christmas everybody. Or whatever your holiday is.
12/22/2006 Zach Cares G. says: Huh? “… be your self and don’t look to others to
validate the way you are?” I don’t believe the issue of personal validation is on
the table here. We’re not looking for others to
validate us; we’re looking for others to go to a
goddamn bar with us, or come over to dinner or shoot
drugs in an alley or whatever. I’m lucky enough to know a couple people in town, and
have a coworker I can grab a beer with from time to
time, but it is looking like a long, cold winter for
me. And spring. And summer. And if the fall is,
too, maybe I’ll be moving on. Everywhere I’ve ever lived before, I could walk into a
bar as a single, solitary guy and have just about a
100% chance of winding up in a conversation with some
stranger. Generally without lifting a finger. Here,
most of the time I go out I can’t even see an
opportunity to talk to anyone without rudely butting
in on their conversation. Groups of people arranged
in the classic Roman “tortoise” formation: armor out,
conversation in. I walk into a bar here and I feel
like a ghost. On the rare occasions I’ve had any
luck, it’s always another recent transplant, or
someone from out of town.
12/22/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: GAWD grumpy – you are SOOOO needy!
š
did you not get the unwelcome to seattle memo? it is
considered polite to completely ignore someone
and if you are introduced to a group – you can epect
them to look you up and down and then commence with
conversation – they don;t want to bother you by
including you in it.
honestly – I thought it was an island thing –
apparently not
12/22/2006 Sky C. says: Yup, GG. And even if someone’s alone at the bar — or
coffee shoppe or what have you — you are still likely
to be interrupting their own private inner
conversation. Tortises indeed, alone and in groups. You are also correct that the issue — at least as I
see it — has absolutely nothing to do with personal
validation. For me, it’s about making friends: people
with whom I might spend time, share things, and
perhaps build up a sense of ongoing trust. The
conversation at the bar is difficult enough to find,
but it is even more challenging to find people who
will part with their phone numbers or email addresses
without sighing reluctantly as they write down the
info — let alone people who will actually return
phone calls or call *me* or make or keep plans (as
G.S. also observed a few posts back). Yes, Phil, people have their issues in every city, but
I’ve yet to see another city that collectively is
*this* outwardly cold. As I mentioned before, I have
been to literally every major city in the continental
US, and have spent quite a bit of time in many of
them. I can honestly say that New York City — with
all of its reputation for being a hostile, cold place
— has a much warmer personality toward outsiders than
Seattle does. Even when I came through town on concert
tours before I lived here, I always had the most
trouble meeting people in Seattle — and I never had
that problem anywhere else. I’ve talked to many others
who have expressed the same sentiments. There’s a
pattern here, folks, and that pattern just doesn’t
exist in other cities. I know you natives don’t want to hear this, and I
understand why: this is a beautiful area, with so much
potential and so many opportunities, and it hurts to
hear such a treasure badmouthed in any way. Believe
me, it hurts *me* to express these feelings, because I
wish I didn’t see things this way. And I’m trying my
hardest to be part of the solution, to strike up
random conversations with strangers and to try to
still go out on those limbs and reach out to people,
but it’s difficult when I hit almost constant
rejection. I volunteer, I work in groups, I go to
school and am in social situations all the time, yet I
still hit these brick walls…. and I don’t understand
why. I’m amazed at the variety of perspectives here,
though. This is quite an interesting discussion.
12/22/2006 Tiffany S. says: Just my two cents … I have felt the Freeze in many
towns including LA and New York. One place I felt it
less was SF but I never lived there as an adult. I
felt it worst in the Hudson Valley within an insular
group who’d grown up together so it was like they’d
forgotten what it was like to meet a new person or
introduce one for that matter. A lot of people I know
here have lived here for a long time and may suffer
from the same insularity. Sometimes it just seems like
their lives are already full. But to just stand
someone up, I’ve never had that happen. I’ve never
experienced that here. That’s just flaky, not
freezing. I’m not saying I don’t know what you’re talking about
because I do. I just wish I could explain it. Maybe we’re a small minority reaching out to other
people. My husband really isn’t interested in making
friends so if someone reached out to him he’d probably
freeze. Doesn’t mean he’s not a great guy. Not
everyone needs new friends. Or maybe they don’t think
they do. For every freeze I would hope there’s some warmth.
This is our first Christmas in town, and we have four
invitations for events over the holiday..from people
who live here…and we will show up. Take THAT,
freeze!
12/23/2006 sam k. says: Seattle freeze? psh. More like Seattle 2 ton slab of
ice to your face wall thing… No I’m just kidding.
I’ve lived here for about 8 months now, my previous
residence being in the bay area California, and I was
lucky enough to make a few friends, some being closer
than others naturally. The others I’d have to say are
more like acquaintances. So yeah, Seattle freeze,
umm, I’ll take two?
01/27/2007 Laural B. says: Two tricks to make friends in Seattle:
1) Sleep with someone who has a lot of friends and end
things on good terms.
2) Find the “smoking room” at a party.
01/27/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: ha ha ha Laural
what about virgin non smokers??
01/27/2007 David H. says: Idea:
Get out there a do some theater.
I have been acting, locally, since 2000, and I have
made a TON of friends.
By the way, most actors love booze and sex.
Ain’t nothin’ frozen about that, yo.
01/28/2007 Sara E. says: I think that the famous Seattle politesse and the
Seattle freeze are two sides of the same coin. I have heard from many people – especially East
Coasters – that people here aren’t “real”, that
they’ll be polite to your face but rude behind your
back, or that they’ll make plans they have no
intention of keeping. I’m a native
and I have been guilty of both of these things –
because I have been raised to be polite, and don’t
want to hurt someone’s feelings by turning them down,
or brushing them off if I don’t like them. To me,
many non-natives, and especially people from the East
Coast, seem kind of abrasive and agressive, always
forcing their opinions down your throat. They seem
overly quick to argue and assert their ideas, and
overly quick to make friends. I don’t think that’s
good or bad – I really want to avoid placing any value
judgements on people’s cultural differences. There
are just very, very different modes of interacting,
and sometimes people who are not native to Seattle
don’t really share my same sensibilities. Seattelites
seem to have an agreement going on – that we’ll say
“yes” to avoid hurt feelings but not count on that
“yes” until we know each other. Maybe it’s a privacy thing. Exchanging numbers seems
kind of intimate. I don’t want to make a date to hang
out with someone I don’t know. I’d almost rather be
alone than have some one-on-one time with someone who
I might not like. Maybe that sounds bad, but really,
it’s true. Also – and I can’t say definitively that
this is a “Seattle” thing, but I feel like it must be
from the comments above – I don’t feel comfortable
giving out my number unless I share some direct
contact with the person I’m giving it to – whether we
work together, go to school together, have a friend in
common, or need to exchange numbers for some other
specific reason. Basically, I think Seattleites need
a concrete REASON to exchange numbers. I hate the fact that Seattle is a lonely place to move
to and I want to apologize to everyone who has felt
personally slighted, frustrated and rejected. But it
isn’t personal – it’s cultural. There are subtleties
to the Seattle way of interacting that take time to
learn.
01/28/2007 Ellen L. says: “But it isn’t personal – it’s cultural.” You are right. It isn’t personal and it is cultural. It’s also rude.
01/28/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: great post Sara E
but I don;t understand this idea of accepting an
invitation with no intention of keeping it, that
doesn;t seem polite at all.
there are a million reasons to give someone if you
don’t care to join them; other plans, illness, family
obligations, the list seems endless.
it seems to me that polite would be “thanks for
thinking of me, I have other plans.”
after a few attempts, folks get the message. my sense is that “Polite Seattleites” prefer people
who are like them – they aren;t big into diversity or
different points of view, and view those things as
some sort of confrontation. I have met so many new comers who are so hurt by the
reticence of the locals, and I understand their
reaction to a certain extent. my personal philosphy is
that it’s your loss if you don;t want to know me.
I have also attended social functions where people
refuse to include me in the little chit chat that
occurs in a group, and I have been literally left
sitting on my own after being introduced to the group.
I have observed this happening to others as well.
I don;t beleive that can be characterized as polite in
any way
01/28/2007 Jon L. says: Aye – well said Sara. Regarding the ‘yes means no’ thing, I think it’s all
about context. There’s a significant difference
between “hey we should go grab a drink some time” and
“do you want to meet me here again tomorrow at 6?”. While I agree it’s the right thing to say “yeah – for
sure” to the former regardless of intent, agreeing to
the latter if you don’t intend to show up isn’t very
nice.
01/28/2007 Jessica V. says: First I was sad. Then frustrated. Then homesick. Then
just full-on annoyed. Then righteous, nodding my head
in approval (Thanks Michelle M). Then frustrated. Then
Sad again. This thread is an emotional roller
coaster. I’m exhausted.
01/28/2007 Shane D. says: Yea, a relative came to visit me from Maine. He said
he read an article about Seattle being politically
correct to the point of being unreceptive to anything
socially deemed as not politically correct. I didn’t see his point than, but I see it now. Also I do think this not asking or talking to someone
has become polite in Seattle, after a few months of
being here I’ve seen myself not asking people to do
something even though I get the sense they want
too….out of sheer fear that it might seem too
forward. So now I am struggling to break my own ice…guH!
01/29/2007 Jessica V. says: I just reread Sara E’s comment about how she often
finds East Coasters aggressive and abrasive. It’s
very eye opening for me. It’s funny, I expected
Seattlites would be really opinionated and open and
worldy, and I think I got that impression from several
good friends back East who were from here and were so
open and cool, and also this general (albeit silly)
impression along the Atlantic that everyone out west
is a kindly free spirit type. But now that I think about it, perhaps that’s the
reason my Seattlite friends stay in NY and DC,
because they happen to be comfortable around us
obnoxious Easterners. I think Northeastern cities pride themselves on being
frank and assertive, you can’t really get what you
need without throwing yourself into the mix. But I can
see how that would come off as too much out here. It’s
something to think about.
01/29/2007 Sarah B. says: I agree Jessica V. I am one of those obnoxious East Coasters from NY who
really has fallen for the Northwest. I guess that’s
why I tend to get along with the Britisih so well too.
We are over-opinionated, assertive, and tend to
sometimes be a bit too loud. Especially when we’re
drinking. But we’re also no nonsense and very honest. Which I
have found a lot of West Coasters find refreshing.
The whole Seattlelites saying “yes” to avoid hurt
feelings is just silly and rude. Luckily, I haven’t
found anyone around here that have acted that way.
01/29/2007 Tyler H. says: While I think people can debate whether what Sara E is
saying is socially “right” or socially “wrong.” As a
fellow born-and-raised Washingtonian, I do agree that
her observations are pretty correct. In addition, I
think that Jon is correct when he mentions that there
are certain contexts to the “yes means no” thing. I’d
never back out of specific plans with someone without
telling them and being honest. But, I have been guilty
of saying “sure” when faced with a generic “we should
hang out sometime.” That said, I think that what Sara hit most directly on
the head (and Jessica noticed) is the fact that, from
a Seattlites perspective, the problem isn’t
necessarily ours… its the other persons. To me, a
lot of people from the East Coast (or even LA,
whatever) seem too loud and abrasive. So assertive
that, from my perspective, it sometimes feels needy. I mean, when you travel abroad, you hear lots of
stories about the stereotypical loud American. Now,
personally, I don’t think we are necessarily loud.
But, when I meet people from other parts of the
country, I begin to see that a bit, because of how
comparatively gregarious others are to me. But, that’s
not to say its a bad thing, just a different (for lack
of a different term) “social volume.” As I mentioned in another thread though, I think I
just get frustrated when people move here, and then
tell the people who live here that the way we do
things is “wrong” or “bad.” To me, THAT’S rude.
01/29/2007 Jessica V. says: Tyler, this is very well put and well taken: “As I mentioned in another thread though, I think I
just get frustrated when people move here, and then
tell the people who live here that the way we do
things is “wrong” or “bad.” To me, THAT’S rude” and “social volume” is a useful new phrase, thanks,
and one I’ll try and think of next time I am out at
the bar. however In my opinion, it just seems kind of tragic for
people to close themselves off from welcoming people
to their community using the excuse that “well, that’s
my culture. That’s just what we do. So you can either
enjoy your loneliness, or take off.” Anyone who has
ever ventured out of their own home town or gets a new
job has been the new guy. And how you treat someone in
that spot is, in my opinion, is more a reflection of
what kind of a person you are than what kind of place
you are from. I’ve had the good fortune of meeting some friends here
who are either also new, remember what it’s like or
(apparently) the exception to the rule, so I’m not
complaining. I like Seattle. Maybe that’s why I don’t
like this notion that you have to get used to people
not wanting to get to know you if you move here. Does
that make sense?
01/29/2007 Tyler H. says: Completely, Jessica. And, I agree completely, when you
say “it just seems kind of tragic for people to close
themselves off from welcoming people to their
community.” I hope you don’t think that’s what I’m
endorsing. I think I probably just get a bit wound up
when people complain about this whole “Seattle chill”
thing because it often sounds to me like a bit of
Seattle-bashing (at least when its not discussed
constructively); and I’m a bit of a fan of Seattle.
So, I probably get too defensive. Ultimately, I want people who move her to feel
welcome. But, I also want the people I already know
and love here to not feel obligated to change the way
they do things. Because, for the most part, I like the
way people are here. But, at the same time, I’m married to a woman who
moved here from Texas. So, I feel like I’m walking
proof that the “Seattle chill” isn’t real… or at
least it can be over come. š
01/29/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I think this is such an interesting discussion Here’s an example of different ways I have noticed
Nowesterners are dealing with the influx: In Ballard, there is a neighborhood association that
holds “welcome to the neighborhood” events: come have
coffee, find out about all the ways you can be
involved in your community, and why it is so special
to us, the folks who have been living here awhile. So
a tight knit community can maintain the tight knit
quality by embracing newcomers into the fold. And in
turn the newcomers can share their ideas for building
the community while it changes Bainbridge Island: nothing at all to welcome the huge
influx of newcomers. A great many of us who have
ventured out to volunteer and be involved in community
events have been treated in such a way that it is
obvious we are not welcome. So we stop trying, we
stick to ourselves or only associate with other
newcomers, and the old timers wonder why the community
is losing the tight knit feeling. that’s my personal observation and experience and yes,
I think I will move to Ballard at some point, but only
if I can’t get the huz back to CA
01/29/2007 David H. says: hmmm…yes, I love this topic too. I am not sure if I
can contribute much, as I do not think I have
experienced the chill, but my cousin from Santa Fe
complained a lot when she moved up here (and she was
suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder, or
something like it, as we have limited sunshine), so
maybe I have little perspective. Seattle remains racially segregated. I was fortunate
to attend Garfield High School, and I appreciated the
diversity inside the school’s walls. Conversely, I
could not ignore the fact the the neighborhood
surrounding the school (circa 1990) was pretty white
free. Humans are afraid (and I do not think that is a
Seattle only phenomenon). I do not take the bus, but I
used to commute to work from West Seattle to Capitol
Hill in the early nineties, and I noticed that folks
would wear headphones (and this was pre-ipod, people,
so I imagine things are “worse” now), and avoid eye
contact to keep from interacting with strange
strangers. Do people in mass transit systems in
Chicago, NYC, and SFC, etc. chat it up with each
other? The polite thing seems suspect too. But if the way
people drive is any indication, the laid back, take
your sweet ass time, “you first” attitude could be
translated as some kind of general passivity. I was
raised in Seattle, and I am polite, but I do not think
that the NW culture did something extra to influence
my attitude. Hey, we were all told don’t stare at the
handicapped. I guess newcomers should just create their own
networks. Shit, look what Yelp and the Internet can do
alone (but, from a distance, everything is easier –
more comfortable).
I moved to LA for a minute, and I was able to make
connections, friends, and I started an actor’s
network, which gave me connections to others
(strangers) in my field. It was not the attitudes of
the people that brought me back home either. I wish I could say about this. Maybe I have not been
living abroad enough to really feel the chill. Maybe I
am just so goddamn charming I make friends wherever I
go. Nah, can’t be that.
01/29/2007 Audrey M. says: I just wanna say: You’ve gotta LOVE a topic that
begins in March of certain year and carries enough
weight to continue far into January of the next! Yelp
on peeps!
01/29/2007 Brian S. says: MMAD, maybe there’s a super chilling Bainbridge
Chill!? I don’t think they like any of us
“mainlanders” over there…
01/29/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: no, in NYC and Sf we wear sunglasses and headphones on
the train, even if is raining
oh, and also reading – we wear headphones, read and
wear dark glasses. this behavior seems to be confined
to public transit
01/29/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: totally Bri – I think they keep everything on the
shabby and mediocre side to discourage visitors, but
it is
s l o w l y changing
02/01/2007 Holly F. says: Coming from CA, Since MMAD just posted this talk
thread within ours, may I chime in ? I’m native to the Bay Area, but lived in Seattle for 4
1/2 yrs… When I lived in Seattle, I was going to UW, so I had
no problem meeting people and making friends – I met
some of my nearest and dearest friends in Seattle.
Though none of them are FROM Seattle. They are from
Hong Kong, LA, and Thailand/Indiana/etc. When I visit Seattle nowadays, I find it relatively
easy to get around – this city is growing so fast! and
first-rate! and people are so nice, but there’s not
that extra **** je ne sais quoi **** that makes me
feel the warm & fuzzies… I always catch a cold in
Seattle, and it’s kind of a metaphor. Seattle-ites are so polite, though! Reminds me of the
midwest. I think MMAD is right, it’s changing š at the rate of
water to ice at 34 degrees F and a wind chill factor
of -3 … I have no idea. 02/01/2007 Tiffany S. says: The “freeze” actually came up in my job interview
today, and I was happy to say that I had enough
Californian in me to not suffer from it (the job
requires loquaciousness). But, I was kinda laughing
that it even came up.
02/17/2007 erika d. says: My two cents (and a bit of a venting session) –Count
me in as another who has been afftected by The Freeze.
It’s crazy!! but…Why do we expect Seattle to be like
other cities?? It is not! Do not assume that tall
buildings and streets filled with cars, metro buses,
stores and people (!) makes Seattle a city, as defined
by those of us from other cities understand the
definition of the word “City”. As soon as we accept
this we will be one step closer to resolution! Maybe.
It’s going on 3 1/2 years for me. If I hadn’t formed
an attachment to another non-Seattle-ite (who also
suffers but is reluctant to leave due to job decency)
during my time here I would have been gone already!
Things I’ve learned in my quest to form a social
circle in Seattle:
-Enroll in a university. Out of my entire university
populace I now officially have 9 friends, who live in
Seattle, 2 of those whom I see on a fairly regular
basis, 7 of whom now call me up once every few months
to have lunch and then cancel.
-Don’t volunteer. Let’s see, so far I’ve volunteered
with PCC, the YMCA, Kexp, a foodbank, and a couple of
other places. Sorta scary. Kexp was the best place to
feel estranged, a couple of people made attempts to
converse (!) and the music was good.
-Work DOES facilitate social contact in the form of
people who are FOWW–Friends Only While Working. Thanks for reading. If anyone knows of or wants to
join an Anti-Freeze gathering send me a message.
02/17/2007 Traci R. says: ABSOLUTELY! it is so hard to make friends here. people
love to be real friendly and say they’ll do anything
for you but they won’t call to go hang out or agree to
any definite plans. I’ve lived in Boston before and
never had any trouble making friends but here you
practically have to beg for someone to go out with
you! Now that i’ve been here almost 8 months things
are changing a little but come on… thats a long
time!
02/19/2007 g g. says: We’ve spent a great deal of time in Seattle over the
past few years, and haven’t really experienced “The
Freeze”. In any case, people from other states or
nations aren’t exempt from the behaviours described in
the article or this thread.
02/19/2007 Derek B. says: Wow, it took a long time to read through this thread! I moved to Seattle a little over three years ago, and
have definitely experienced “the freeze.” My
experience of it has been similar to what others have
described here: the aloof politeness, the
non-committal attitude toward hanging out, and an
unwillingness to open up (personally, emotionally) to
new people. It’s almost as if Seattle natives have an
innate fear of being hurt in personal relationships. It was suggested earlier in this thread that true
friendships don’t happen immediately or overnight, and
I certainly agree with this. You don’t get to know
someone, and develop the sort of easy rapport that
generally comes from years of comradeship, in a flash.
I don’t expect anything like that. What I do expect,
however, is the opportunity to get to know people
beyond a superficial “hanging out,” which seems to be
the Seattle way. Fortunately, I have a job in tourism, and a lifestyle
that puts me in contact with large numbers of people
who are not from Seattle but quite often move here. As
a result, I have made friends in my time here but very
few of them are FROM here. My two dearest friends in
Seattle are from my home state of Minnesota, but we
did not know each other when we lived in Minnesota. I guess the trick in Seattle may be to simply seek out
people who you already share something in common with
(other than residing in Seattle); someone earlier
mentioned acting. For me, that meant finding people
who appreciate the same things as me (good espresso,
good beer, good food, and travel), and people who I
have the bond of a shared experience with — working
and living on board a small cruise ship. In other words, Seattle may not be as open and
friendly to newcomers as other cities. It takes some
time to get used to this, and my two best friends here
have almost given up and left because they found it so
difficult. But we’ve all stuck it out, and it seems to
have been worth it; we just had to adapt our means and
methods of making friends to the ways of Seattle.
02/20/2007 Jenny B. says: I know the freeze… and have experienced it. Perhaps
it’s true that Seattleites take a little longer to
warm up than citizens of other, err, warmer cities. THAT SAID, I had an experience a few weeks ago that
completely changed my perception of my fellow Emerald
City folk. My son fell in Greenlake… I jumped in
after… and needless to say I was OH SO VERY GRATEFUL
for the people who pulled us out, gave us blankets,
and drove us home. The water was freezing, the people
were far from it. (full account at:
http://seattleparents.bl… ) So now my opinion is… yes Seattleites take a while
to get to know. But I’m going to go out on a limb and
say that sometimes the harder things are the most
worthwhile. So don’t give up on us yet… beneath the
veneer of stand-offish politeness, I’d say we’re a
pretty good bunch.
02/20/2007 Melissa J. says: Well, I have been here several months now, and still
haven’t really experienced anything different than I
experienced in Florida or Louisiana. Honestly, either
people are the same here as they are in other places
about making friends (as adults) or everyone who has
moved here has received the same aloof treatment that
I have gotten for years everywhere I have lived (maybe
because I am overweight? maybe because I am
different?). Perhaps people just have certain
expectations about other people that are a bit
unrealistic, especially when they are juggling
work/school/families/misc. duties and hobbies. I
don’t know how long this “freeze” thing has been
circulating about Seattle but I kind of think it is
just a sign of the times, not the location. We are
all tired, overstimulated, overinformed,
overscheduled, and just plain overwhelmed. Maybe
adding another person into the mix is just
overwhelming. Perhaps we should think about that
before jumping to conclusions.
02/20/2007 Sky C. says: Erika D., your post was both hilarious and dead on. Melissa, perhaps you should understand the backgrounds
of those of us who complain before jumping to
conclusions about our social abilities and/or those of
others. People are over-whatevered in other cities,
yes… but the way in which they deal with those
situations seems different here. And, yes, Jenny B., people in this area are generous,
giving and polite to a fault. Just don’t try to be
*friends* with them, that’s all.
02/20/2007 Aunt B. says: I think the Seattle “freeze” can work to your
advantage. People let you do your own thing, and
respect you for doing it. It takes a little longer
(sometimes a lot longer) to make real friends, but who
really needs more close friends than you can count on
one hand anyway? Make lots of acquaintences, and you
may have to be persistant, but you can pick and choose
who you want to move into the “close friends”
category. It does take time. I’ve been here about 3
years now. I’m originally from NY/NJ and I found it
harder to make new friends out there, maybe since it’s
where I grew up and I didn’t feel like I could
reinvent myself. I mean, when you’re living 30 mins
from where you went to highschool – maybe its just a
psychological barrier.
But before moving here I spent about 3 years in Utah
of all places. (My job had moved there.) So I had a
unique perspective on coming here. I literally felt
like I had stepped right out of the 50s. Seattle was
so refreshing – people didnt look twice at you and
weren’t full of pity that you weren’t married and
didnt have 6 kids by the time you were 30. You could
also say things like…..shit…and Goddamn….oh, and
buy beer without a second thought.
So Seattle is like a heaven to me. I would like to
make some more friends, yes, but I can be patient. I
feel like I earned the ones I have made so far and
have had plenty of times when plans were cancelled at
the last minute. (I have to admit, I have started to
do this too, but only with people who do it regularly
– because they understand.) I try not to though. š
But even with my good friends, we only end up keeping
about 40-50% of our plans because there’s an unspoken
understanding that they arent definite. We’re working
towards getting better though! It’s important to at
least call and cancel and maybe reschedule, but I
never just dont show up for something that I replied
to. Atleast I dont think I have.
Be yourself, do your own thing, and enjoy it – the
great thing about this place is that you can embrace
that creative side and find plenty of other people
doing the same. For love, not money. And the friends
will come – in time.
02/20/2007 Zach Cares G. says: And there you have it folks: Seattle is better than
Utah. Go, Seattle!
02/20/2007 Aunt B. says: I also said it’s better than the east coast, for me,
but you left that out. It *is* what you decide to make of it. If you’re
determined to only see the negative, you will. But
some people are only happy when they’re
unhappy…hence….grumpiness. Whatever floats your boat. š
02/20/2007 g g. says: Good point, Elisa. There is something to be said for adopting mentalities
regarding people or a place, and the degree to which
this may impact how one subconsciously behaves towards
them. It can become self-fulfilling. I’m not
suggesting this is the way it is for everyone who’s
mentioned “the freeze”, but it’s something to
consider. There is also the mirroring aspect, and the
extent to which we object to behaviours we mimic. Anyhow, going on about how boring, cold or
passive-aggressive people in Seattle might be —
particularly online — isn’t likely to engender
improved communications.
02/20/2007 Aunt B. says: True! I didnt say anything about being boring, cold or
passive aggressive though….which is funny. I just
said Grumpiness – because that’s his nick……Grumpy
Gourmet…..
02/20/2007 g g. says: I wasn’t referring to you. It was general, and related
to many comments made here or elsewhere regarding
Seattle or Seattleites. Although, it also applies to
communicating generalisations about people or places
on the whole.
02/20/2007 Sylvia L. says: If there’s a Seattle Freeze then Hong Kong must be
having a serious blizzard. I love to smile, it’s only
natural for me to smile to strangers on the street
whenever there’s eye contact. People looked at me like
I was crazy when I displayed the same type of
friendliness in Hong Kong. People really live in their
own bubble over there.
02/20/2007 terrell m. says: smiling gets you far in life, i’ve found. keep it up,
Sylvia!
02/20/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: every one has different tolerances for chilly
weather…
grumpy’s nickname is funny – cuz he isn;t really all
that grumpy in real life
02/20/2007 Melissa J. says: Sky, I seem to have inadvertently hit some kind of
nerve with you. I mentioned absolutely nothing about
anyone’s social abilities. And I don’t think most of
the people on this thread knows much about the
backgrounds of the other posters who have complained
of “the freeze.” I do think I have a right to speak
up about not having noticed a “freeze” in my
situation. I am not from Seattle. I am from Central
Florida (not large cities) and I lived in Baton Rouge
for 6 years. I only moved here in October. I am
only saying that my experiences in all these places,
as far as making friends, has been very similar once
I got to my mid-20s. Making friends when you are
mid-20s and up is a different animal due to all of the
factors I mentioned in my previous post. I think
there are a lot of people who lose sight of that. Not
that there is no “freeze,” but I haven’t experienced
anything different here than in the south. Just
something to think about, not a personal attack!
Sheesh! g.g. has made several great points. Listen to her. Okay, Seattle is also better than the South! One more thing to add, when I lived in Baton Rouge, I
worked at this place for 5 years. We were like a big
family. Everyone knew I didn’t have family in
Louisiana and that I didn’t have money or vacation
time to visit my family during the holidays. Only
once, the last X-Mas I was there, did I get an
invitation to dinner. I guess my point is, don’t
expect things from other people. Even in the deep
south, where hospitality is supposedly second nature,
people stay to themselves. Without that expectation,
there is no “freeze.” If friendships are meant to be
formed, they will…in their own time. If they don’t,
don’t blame the other person. And don’t blame
yourself either. It could have just been bad timing,
nothing else.
02/20/2007 David H. says: Can’t we all just get along?
Loosen up and have more casual sex.
That is my 2 cents, bitches!
02/20/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: do not toy with me David…..
š (I think we get along, we just don’t agree is all) come to think of it – you haven;t UFC’d or PM’d me in
a long time
see?? see? see how you are!!!??? kidding – call me but till next month – i’m in SF
02/20/2007 David H. says: MMAD, I still got mad love for ya though.
Nothing chilly here.
Keeping it hot.
-tha d
02/21/2007 g g. says: Can’t we all just get along?
—
Brilliant irony. š
02/28/2007 Jenny B. says: This discussion has been blogged at
http://blog.seattlepi.nw… š
02/28/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: great blog post Jenny – and the repsonses are like
yelp talk!! I am disgesting your words and will reply later
02/28/2007 Jenny B. says: thanks! I am loving reading people’s replies.
02/28/2007 Jaz M. says: Hiya Jenny! I replied to your blog, thanks for helping
me know that I wasn’t alone when it came to the
parental freeze. NOW that sort of freeze I’ve
experienced a lot, and still do on a near daily basis.
:o)
02/28/2007 Michelle B. says: Wow, a “parental freeze” I have never even though of
that *pulls head out of…well, you know where* I was pretty “done” with this topic, as I’ve felt like
it just turns into Seattle bashing, and leads to some
sort of self fulfilling prophecy. I mean, if you hate
on everyone in a city, you can’t really whine when you
they aren’t all that warm to you…uh…you hate us,
remember??? However, I can’t even imagine how difficult it is for
parents! Good thing Jaz is all popular and stuff
around here on Yelp – who in the heck can freeze
Jaz?????
The epic (and now dead) Seattle Yelp Freeze Thread
December 14, 2009They came from far and wide to participate in this thread. It was so successful that the people of the Seattle Yelp community flaged it for removal so they wouldn’t have to see it get bumped anymore.
Fortunately, someone grabbed the text from Google cache before it was gone forever.
03/22/2006 Maria C. says:
So there was this article last year about the “Seattle
Freeze” that spoke about how polite but unfriendly we
are – particularly the natives. As a native it took me
by surprise, but now I’m wondering. Are we unfriendly?
Is it hard to make new friends in Seattle? Especially
for transplants? I’m editing a book about moving to
Seattle and would like to include something about
this. Any thoughts? Share your worst. Or best. Thanks! 03/22/2006 Sky C. says: I’m sure I’ll get plenty of flames for this, but I’m
going to go out on a limb here and say that I have
definitely fallen victim to the Seattle Freeze. I’ve lived in many places, and have spent a fair
amount of time in almost every major city in America,
and Seattleites are by far the least accessible people
I’ve ever encountered. That is not by ANY means to say
that they’re not *nice* here; people in Seattle are
amazingly polite, friendly and courteous on the
surface level. Key words: on the surface. Try to get to know them or
make plans, and there’s a brick wall that I’ve run up
against time and time again. It’s almost comical, in a sad sort of way. I’ve
actually had conversations with local people about how
difficult it is to make friends here. They’ll nod
sympathetically and tell me how it took them years to
make friends here and to find a group of folks to hang
out with. But if I even *think* about suggesting that
we perhaps hang out sometime, or if I offer my email
or phone number or the prospect of coffee or shopping
sometime, the wall goes right back up in my face and
things get awkward. And, of course, I never hear back
from the person again. Incredible. I’ve never encountered that sort of thing
before, so I can’t believe it’s just me. Yes, yes, I know. “If you don’t like it, leave.” And I
probably will, honestly, because even though this city
is amazing and beautiful and has SO much to do, I
refuse to stay in a place that’s this cold — and I’m
not talking about the weather. Disagree? Prove me wrong, Seattle. I dare you.
03/22/2006 Anna S. says: THANK YOU!! I’m a California transplant, and I feel
the same way!! I’ve lived here for almost two years,
and I have not made one single friend. I have tried,
and the times I’ve tried, I get the same brick wall in
my face. People are nice here, they’re just not open. It
almost seems like people are mad at the transplants
for showing up in their beautiful city and populating
it. I had a couple of people tell me that Seattlites
hate it when Californians move here. What in the hell
is that supposed to mean!? I’m just a person
exploring our fine country, and hey, you should be
pleased as punch that I picked Seattle to live in,
because I thought it was, and is, a great place. Now
I know that in a couple of years I too will be moving
back to warm (in more ways than one) California.
Maybe someone here will miss me…
03/22/2006 Sky C. says: It’s comforting, in a sad sort of way, to know that
I’m not the only one. I actually found the article
mentioned above on my own a few days ago. I had
written on my blog about how I felt shut out of
Seattle, and a long-time friend of mine who is
familiar with the area hit me with a comment and
informed me that this was a well-known phenomenon
called the Seattle Freeze. A little Googling led me to
that article, which was reassuring and sad all at the
same time. And yeah, Anna, the same thing goes for East Coasters
as Californians, apparently. The sad thing is, so many
of the people who live here are from Somewhere Else,
and yet they seem to have adopted the same philosophy
as those who were born and raised here. Is it because
they “did their time”, and they feel the rest of us
should as well? Is it that they — as that article
mentions — want to pull up the drawbridges and shut
everyone who came behind them out, so as to preserve
that which makes Seattle wonderful? Or is it something
else? The sad thing is, the ostracization of newcomers will
simply add a miserable, lonely characteristic to
Seattle. Making outsiders feel unwelcome will not make
Seattle a better place; it will only make it a sadder
place, and will, to some degree, rob this town of its
potential to be an amazing, wonderful city.
03/22/2006 Maria C. says: “Making outsiders feel unwelcome will not make Seattle
a better place; it will only make it a sadder place,
and will, to some degree, rob this town of its
potential to be an amazing, wonderful city.” I totally agree and I think it has somewhat to do with
the Nordic/Asian reserve that the article mentioned. I
say this as someone who is part Asian, from a reserved
family and a 3rd generation Seattleite. I lived in
Savannah, Georgia for 8 years and the thing that
struck me – very forcefully – was that everyone was so
friendly. From the first week I arrived there was some
kind of invitation to something every week from
neighbors and co-workers. I moved back to Seattle 5
years ago and all my old friends had moved so I was
basically starting over in what I thought of as MY
city. It took awhile. Plus, as a single mom there
wasn’t a lot of opportunity to socialize anyway. My
friends now are mainly ex-coworkers. It makes me sad to hear how hard it is to make
friends, I had thought it was just the circumstances
of my own life, and personally I’ve always liked
making new friends but I’m just one and the unfriendly
are legion I guess. I think it’s a blight on our city.
I love that we’re polite, but that just isn’t enough.
Thanks for sharing. Now I’m wondering if there’s any way to get past the
Freeze. Has anyone done it successfully?
03/23/2006 Robyn H. says: I know its out there. I’ve heard people talk about the
Seattle Freeze but when I moved here 20 years ago it
wasn’t something I ever ran into. In all the places
I’d ever lived, Seattle was one of the nicest,
friendliest places of all. Its one of the reasons I
stayed here for that long a time. I have a good solid
group of friends that I hang out with and I get
together with others who I haven’t known for very
long. Maybe I’ve just been very fortunate in my
choices of who to approach.
That said…..I have seen newcomers shut out of
activities and events with long-time residents.
However, I’ve also run into that in other places as
well. Even in the South (near Atlanta) where the
concept of Southern hospitality still exists, it still
takes a while to get to know people really well.
I don’t have any ready answers for avoiding “the
Freeze”. Getting together with co-workers and fellow
students seems to be the easiest way to break into a
group of like-minded folks.
03/23/2006 Michelle M. says: “Seattle Freeze”?? I call bull-shit. I am a native
and have been in the situation where I needed to go
out and “make new friends” here. Most of the close
friends I have now, I met “going out on a limb”. I’m
a volleyball player so I guess that gave me an upper
hand when I one day decided to go out to Greenlake and
ask complete strangers if I could play (volleyball)
with them. From there I met more and more people and
found those I “clicked” with, and with whom I’m close
now. I don’t believe it’s WHERE you are in the world,
it’s your ATTITUDE and how you present yourself in the
world that opens or shuts doors for you. Find
like-minded folks through sports or classes or
different activities and just put yourself out there –
you might just be surprised at the reception, wherever
you are in the world.
03/23/2006 Sky C. says: “I don’t believe it’s WHERE you are in the world, it’s
your ATTITUDE and how you present yourself in the
world that opens or shuts doors for you.” … and normally, I would agree. However, I’ve been
many, many places, and I’ve never had any trouble
finding people with whom I had things in common, or
making friends, until I arrived here. For some reason,
this place has been a different story, and I’ve no
idea why. But, Michelle, as you said, you’re a native, so
perhaps you’re more likely to get a positive reaction
from the natives here. Since “where are you from” is a
question that often comes up very early on in a
conversation, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think
that people might treat newcomers differently than
people who are truly *from* here — as you are. I’ve certainly put myself out there, and will continue
to do so. I work in independent promotions, and my
work requires me to know — and get along with — as
many people as possible. And I’m doing fine with that;
people here are very friendly and helpful and polite.
As far as making actual *friends* goes, though, that’s
another story. So far, anyway.
03/24/2006 Maria C. says: Co-workers, clubs, volunteering have always worked for
me and introductions to friends of friends. Maybe it’s
all just dumb luck. My closest friend now I’ve only
known a couple of years and it turns out we hung out
at all the same places during the same time for years
many years ago, went to the same concerts, shared the
same interests, but our paths never crossed. Go
figure.
03/24/2006 Jaz M. says: I’ve been living in Seattle for a little over 9 years
and have experienced the so called Seattle Freeze but
in the wrong order. 3 months into living in West
Seattle and working at Blockbuster two of my
co-workers extended in invite to watch the Academy
Awards at the bar next door. We were friends for a
couple years until suddenly the two (one a Seattle
native the other from upstate New York) dropped off
the social radar, never returned my calls or emails.
Very odd. However, let me just say the best place to work to get
to know people, native or otherwise is the Pike Place
Market. I worked there for 4 years, and then my
daughter went to the child care there for 4 years. My
8 years of the market have introduced me to so many
brilliant and beautiful people that I still have close
to me now. I love that I can still walk through the
market on any given day and have people call out to
me, or I have to stop in and say Hello at least in a
dozen different shops on all the floors of the market. Don’t judge Seattle by some of the people you’ve
encountered, or haven’t encountered. They’re out
there. You know when you’ve misplaced your keys and
the more you look for them the less you find them?
Well maybe taking a step back from finding friends
will destress the situation and the friends might jsut
find you. -Jaz
03/25/2006 john q. says: To all, well…what a co-ink-ka-dink…. I have heard about the famous “seattle freeze” before
coming to seattle to become a resident… personally, i will tell you that i do think there is
“something” about that and it does occur in a rather
large portion of the population, though not all of
it… it goes to the nuture/nature/environment discussion it
seems…but in DFW, where I have lived most of my
adult life till moving here seven weeks ago, there are
definite quirks that people carry as well…. I happened to find it frustrating while looking for a
job because i am fairly direct, and i have noticed
“Seattlites” seems to come in a round-about-sideways
direction…it is as if they want you to keep your
distance and just sort of be “around” being
friendly…maybe that is why i can not find work
because i am too direct and friendly…it is like they
don’t want you to be upfront, they would rather leave
things up in the air open-ended…. I have noticed that people, if I say I am from out of
town and have just moved react one of two ways: A) if
they are a transplant they get excited and ask
question and make conversation and instant friendship
is attainable…but if they are B) from Seattle they
just say “what made you come here?” and then cut the
conversation short, and just sort of “retract” their
initial social hand handshaking,remain polite but not
outwardly friendly anymore. There was a reply on the matter from a person of
Japanese decent about it being in asian culture (and
being asian myself i understand his
references)….that sort of makes sense if you have
been to Japan and that IS a cultural norm…but the
majority of people in seattle are caucasian and the
American culture is designed to offer up potential to
the “individual” first and “culture and society”
second… for example, recently i asked questions to a lady
about her own establishment in regards to meeting
other people (she was asking about where to meet
people here on yelp)…I also asked where her place
was, and if it would be a good place for me and she
responded with a “listed attack” towards me… it is an odd social setup here… my friend and neighbor downstairs a NY’er who has
lived here for 2 years was expressing to me last
evening how to “approach” people in seattle, and it
sounded as if she was expressing the very notion of
the “seattle freeze”… i told her about this column and the questions it
brought up…she remarked of a friend she made here, a
friend who was born in Seattle having moved to NY and
remarking how hard it was for that person to adjust to
people in NY because “if they say they are going to do
“A”, then they actually do “A”.”..,This person comes
to back to town and remarks “how distant and
unapproachable people in Seattle are compared to NY,
and wondered if he came across the same way
initially…..
06/26/2006 Ellen L. says: First off, Seattle natives posting replies and saying
it’s BS don’t count. Growing up someplace is different
than moving to a city as an adult where you know no
one. Also, it can’t be entirely someone’s attitude when the
major city newspaper publishes articles about how cold
people are. I’ve lived all over the world and I’ve
never seen a major newspaper publish an article about
it’s own city’s people being “frozen.” In this case,
the majority rules. I was born and raised in Chicago but lived in Arizona
for 12 years and came here for a job transfer. My
father’s family is from the Northwest and came on the
Oregon Trail. My mother’s family moved here from
Chicago during WWII when my grandfather was in the
Navy. My mother told me stories of how their neighbor told
them outsiders should leave and Seattle was a great
place before all the “outsiders” came in (meaning
them) and that they weren’t welcome. My grandmother
was very lonely here. Luckily for the neighbor, my
family moved back to Chicago after the war. My mom
told me that Washington people were “provincial” and
friendly on the surface but didn’t want to let you in
to their social circles. I figured things had chance
since the 1940s. I never understood what my mother meant until I lived
here (now 6 years). These have been the loneliest
years of my life. I am a very outgoing person. I do
volunteer and everything else natives say we must do
to inculturate. Yet, nothing ever really “sticks” and
that’s what’s so weird to me. People say, “let’s get
together sometime” but they blow it off or break the
plans. There is a real lack of social manners in that
regard. It seems they never want to get in too deep with
anyone (except their own native friends and family)
and I think that the non-natives become the same way
after living here for awhile. The strange thing is that I can go home to Chicago, go
to the dog beach, and walk away with a date for the
evening. People in big cities are lonely, hungry for
companionship, and will do the work to get together.
If I didn’t have that comparison, I may think it’s BS. There is a lot of California bashing, which is sad
because the California people are actually more
outgoing than the natives in my experience. I aslo
don’t want to bash the home of my ancestors but I
would never choose to grow old here, no matter how
beautiful it is. There is something very self-centered
about the culture. People are too busy and they don’t
seem to value knowing people outside their own
circles. I hate to say this, but there also seems to be a low
level anger that I can’t seem to understand. I sense a
kind of hostility for different reasons at work and in
neighbors. I could drive myself crazy thinking it’s me
and I’m just insecure, unlikable, or ugly but I know
it’s not me. I have too much comparison from other
states. Oh well, that’s just my two cents.
06/26/2006 Rachel B. says: I am native to Washington but not native to Seattle.
Where I grew up, we knew that folks in western
washington didn’t even know we existed. Most folks in
eastern wa have traveled to western wa many times.
Most folks who are a native to western wa rarely (if
ever) travel to eastern wa. (Yes, of course there are
exceptions.) So, there is something insular about folks from this
(western) side of the state. Perhaps it is because
they know what a treasure this place is and don’t want
to share it. I had no idea people were friendly until I traveled to
other parts of the country! And, yes, washington residents in general dislike
californians in particular because there was a time
(before the microsoft boom) where folks from
california were migrating to washington in hordes and
they drove up the price of real estate and made it
hard for regular working folks to afford to buy a
house. What i dislike most about folks who live in seattle is
that they tell you they are going to come to something
and then they never show up! Very rude when you’ve
purchased and made food based on the number of folks
who are coming. I think it is hard to make friends here. Just takes
more determination and patience to find the folks who
are truly nice.
06/27/2006 Phil S. says: I was born here, have lived here all but 6 months of
my life and have this to say. First of all, the media
can’t be trusted to be accurate on anything. Secondly,
Seattle is a seaport and has all kinds of people that
have migrated from other cities in the US and the
world. As for the so-called freeze, yeah, Seattle has
some cold, stuck-up people in it but you’ll find those
people everywhere you go and especially if you are
looking for them. You know the type, insecure,
prideful, vain, and competitive. However, one day if
you are nice and humble, you may run into someone who
has moved here from say Daingerfield Texas (population
2,715) and they might remember how there, people you
don’t even know, young and old wave to you when
driving by and with a smile, say hi to you when
walking by. I guess what I’m saying here is, you plant
the seed and it’ll either do nothing or you’ll meet
people as nice as you but, you will also show those
“cold” people, your good spirit and eventually they
might realize nice people are happy people. (No, I’m
not Dr. Phil).
06/27/2006 Phil S. says: One other thing of note, Maria: “Native” Seattleites
are a minority these days since a lot of people have
moved here from other cities because of the beautiful
setting and a lot of “Natives” have moved away because
of taxes, etc. or for whatever other reasons. So, a
lot of the people here are unjustified in their tight
grip on “their” city. I think the news media and
impressionable people have always been to blame for
that so-called Seattle Freeze. It’s like this, Seattle
may not have had a hate crime for 25 years and after
the news media gets a hold of the one account, all of
a sudden hate crimes are up 75% in Seattle. Please!
06/27/2006 Julia Z. says: I hate to say it but I’ve seen it way more in Seattle
proper than over on the Eastside. I’ve made most of my
friends over there, some through work, some through a
support group I started, and a few in other ways
(including, yes it’s true, hotornot.com <http://hotornot.com>). In Seattle,
the only folks I’ve socialized with are people from
work, friends that I knew when we both lived back
east, and oddly enough, one woman I met because I kept
winning her eBay auctions and it was easier to drive
to her place in Magnolia to pick the stuff up. š Let’s unfreeze Seattle! Let’s have some successful
Yelp events and then do fun stuff together
unofficially! Maria, I’m ready for another game
night!!
06/27/2006 Julia Z. says: I hate to say it but I’ve seen it way more in Seattle
proper than over on the Eastside. I’ve made most of my
friends over there, some through work, some through a
support group I started, and a few in other ways
(including, yes it’s true, hotornot.com <http://hotornot.com>). In Seattle,
the only folks I’ve socialized with are people from
work, friends that I knew when we both lived back
east, and oddly enough, one woman I met because I kept
winning her eBay auctions and it was easier to drive
to her place in Magnolia to pick the stuff up. š Let’s unfreeze Seattle! Let’s have some successful
Yelp events and then do fun stuff together
unofficially! Maria, I’m ready for another game
night!!
07/01/2006 Maria C. says: There’s a phrase that keeps running through my head as
I read this thread. “There are a thousand stories in
the naked city…” I’ve heard too many first hand stories now to think
that the “freeze” doesn’t exist. Obviously it does.
I’ve lived in other cities and have family and friends
scattered across the country so I know that the
“culture” in other places is different. I’m also a
native, born in Seattle, though I grew up mostly on
Vashon Island. My grandparents came here during the
Depression from the midwest and opened a mom and pop
grocery store in West Seattle and were put out of
business by the first Safeway in Seattle, but their
stories included neighbors gathering at the home of
the first television set on the block. My father came
to this country from Japan as a young man in the late
50’s to go to college, met my mom and stayed. They had
a large network of friends, many of whom were from
somewhere else. I can’t hear ‘The Girl from Ipanema’
without remembering the endless round of cocktail
parties with all the kids thrown into a bedroom or rec
room. Maybe times have changed. Lately the media has latched
on to the study that says we ALL have fewer intimate
friends these days. I don’t pretend to know the
reasons for the “freeze”, nor do I have answers for
those it affects the most. All I can say is, Let’s Party! This native thinks
you’re a fabulous group of people no matter where
you’re from. I love the diversity of Yelpers and
opinions. Let’s go on the Art Walk next Saturday and
bar hop. Let’s have another game night. Let’s have a
potluck and let our foodies strut their stuff. Let’s
all meet new people and unfreeze Seattle in our own
way. I mean, doesn’t it start with what we do as
individuals?
07/24/2006 Sam H. says: Interesting (and well-written) review š
http://www.yelp.com/biz/. <http://www.yelp.com/biz/>..
07/24/2006 Maria C. says: Yes, I’m impressed with his eloquence and insightful
wit.
07/24/2006 terrell m. says: I was born and raised in Texas, then moved to Colorado
for 2 years, then to Boston for 3 and finally, to
Seattle. When I first moved here I was in a relationship and
rarely went out. My co-workers would invite me to
every happy hour or house party and it took me months
before I actually showed up at one. They never gave up
on me, and now some of them are my closest friends. My
ex-boyfriend used to frequent the same coffee shop
(Diva at 85th) a couple times a day and after a couple
months he was hanging out with all the folks that
worked there. The 2 girls we lived next door to in
Greenlake invited us to their sister’s wedding in
Shelton. These are just a few examples of how open people in
Seattle can be. When I lived in Boston, I only made 1
really close friend that was a Boston native, and that
was because he was my roommate. Otherwise, all my
friends from there were transplants. In Seattle,
almost all my friends are natives. Maybe my experience is unusual, but I honestly think
that most people I’ve come across here have been
totally warm and welcoming. And I haven’t even made
much of an effort!
07/25/2006 Phil S. says: Sam H.: I noticed that Howie guy is from San
Francisco. Murphy must have traveled with him to
Seattle. Either that or he struck out here. Who knows! Terrell: – Your experience is not unusual at all and I
think a lot of how people are treated in Seattle
depends largely on the people, the neighborhood you’re
in at the time and whether that neighborhood is a
Stress-point where, people run higher stress levels
depending on their jobs, etc. For instance, I would
consider downtown Seattle a stress-point but not so
much Greenlake, Ballard, or Queen Anne, etc. So it
happens, they may not say hi to you downtown but if
they happen to be in Greenlake they might greet you.
Like Maria, I’m a native of Seattle but I lived in TX
for six months and it was the same situation there.
There are just too many variables for the media to peg
the very general term “Seattle Freeze”. For the most
part, people have always been friendly to us here in
the Ballard area, even those who don’t live in this
community. So it’s like this, every fingerprint is
different. Fingerprints can’t be permanently changed
but behavior can so I say hi to people right away. If
they say hi back, great. If not, great. Give them
time. We are a race the responds to input. I don’t
know how long you’ve lived in Seattle but none the
less, Welcome to Seattle : )
07/25/2006 Tiffany S. says: Wow – this is fascinating, having lived here for 9
years (over 20 years ago), then moving away only to
return now. I feel fortunate to have at least 3 good
friends here(and a husband) who we see often, but I’ve
known one for over 5 years and the others for 26
years! The other night we were out and a friend of a friend
invited us to go kayaking. We thought that was so
great though we told him there was a good chance we
couldn’t make it since it was last minute. He said,
“No worries, any time.” It turns out we didn’t go
which leads me to my next point. When we lived in NY, we were those people who did what
we said we were going to (like moving to Seattle. I’m
sure there are still some folks there who think we’re
just hiding out and we never moved at all.) What we’ve
found here is that everyone is big on plans and short
on follow through. Fortunately, I lived in NY just
long enough to learn to hound without overdoing it. I
will make it happen (except for the occasional
last-minute kayaking invite, though we’re still
working on it). I think some people just have good
intentions and then maybe life gets in the way? Or
there’s a big case of the nice disease. Who knows? I’ll share one more anecdote – I said to a friend’s
boyfriend (who’s from NY State but lives here now),
“the people are really nice here” to which he replied,
“No, they’re not.” I said, “What do you mean?” His
answer was that in NY, the people say “F you” to your
face though they may think you’re alright, but in
Seattle they’ll say “You’re alright” when they’re
really thinking/feeling “F you.” I think some people
(not just Seattleites) may just not be very good
communicators and they have conflict-avoidance issues. That said, Maria, sign us up for the Art Walk! Let’s
bring out the blow torches and blow the ice off. I
promise we won’t flake!
07/25/2006 terrell m. says: Phil, thanks…I’ve been here going on 4 years. This
city has been the hardest for me to acclimate to, but
that has more to do with my own circumstances: moving
here with no job, knowing no one but my boyfriend,
breaking up with boyfriend, limited cash flow, etc.
When I lived in Boston, I didn’t know anyone either,
but I walked everywhere and I was younger and more
naive, and thus, more trusting and totally outgoing.
In Colorado, I lived in a small town, so it was easy
to acclimate b/c everyone knew each other and I worked
at a brewery so it was like an instant social life. Here’s a little anecdote about the Freeze: I was at
the SAM one night with some coworkers. It was the
opening night of an exhibit and I was walking around
with my complimentary audio tour. I noticed some guy
trailing me and when I turned to him, he asked where I
got the audio tour. I told him they were by the
entrance, but that he could have mine. About 20
minutes later he found me in the crowd to return it
and said, “Are you from around here?” I said, “not
originally” and he said, “Good. People from Seattle
are so passive-agressive. Do you want to go out
sometime?” It was a little forward for me, so I said
no. But, I think it’s funny that he uses the whole
anti-Freeze thing to pick up women. And, BTW, I am totally up for the Art Walk!
07/25/2006 Phil S. says: I agree with you Tiffany, Some people do have trouble
communicating. I think another problem is, people
either are, or act too busy. Or, they’ll promise one
thing, discover something better and blow off the
first thing. Anyway, people are just too busy and a
lot of times, it’s their own fault because they make
themselves that way by taking on to much. Then they
get stressed out and then “Seattle Freeze”.
07/25/2006 Phil S. says: Terrell, That is funny! He sounds like a real class “act”.
There must be a book on Lame Seattle pick-up lines
somewhere.
07/25/2006 James B. says: Move to Chicago! We would love to have you.
07/25/2006 Erin V. says: I originally came to Seattle from the MidWest in 1988,
to attend Cornish. I think that the natural bonding of
being a student sheltered me from the “Seattle Freeze”
back then. In February of this year, I returned – after leaving
in 1990 – to become a permanent resident. While people
feel quite free to make thinly-veiled insults upon
hearing that I am originally from Indiana (I believe
they expect me to be an overall-clad rube with a piece
of hay betwixt my teeth), I’ve still not really had
the frigid response that some folks describe. I’m not sure if that is a reflection of my personality
(I can be a bit of an extrovert), or the people I have
chosen to reach out to (and who greeted me warmly). I
thnk maybe I just got lucky – there are jerks
everywhere. Getting past them and onto the quality
folks is the challenge in any city.
07/25/2006 Ian M. says: As a new resident, I feel compelled to offer my input
as well, even if the main points have been made
already. Maybe I just like to hear myself talk. š
We have only been here for about three months now, and
as such, really don’t have much in the way of friends.
I can’t compare my experience thus far to New Jersey,
because I grew up there, or Atlanta, because I moved
there to attend college, which is an enitrely
different situation. Most recently, though, I lived
in Albuquerque for nearly two and a half years, and
really, the only good friends I really had and made an
effort to keep up with were co-workers. If you asked me to, I could probably write an article
about the “Albuquerque Freeze,” because I never felt
quite right there, for some reason that I could never
quite place. It felt to me that people were just
slightly “different.” Something about the desert, I
figured–beautiful as it was. Really, though, I think
it was that I was new, and looking for the same things
that comforted me in previous situations–looking too
hard for it. In those previous situations, it just
sort of happened: I didn’t make a special effort, so
much, to make it so. However, when placed in an
unfamiliar situation, our natural inclination is to
seek comfort, so we’re especially sensitive to nuances
that we might otherwise not be. I have no desire to be Mr. Popularity with 1000
telephone numbers in my cell phone, but I do look
forward to making a handful of good friends–and even
more friendly acquaintances–here in Seattle through
activities, impromptu social situations, and shared
interests. I haven’t spent much time trying as of
yet, but I think this is forgivable given our recent
introduction to the area. There are enough people
here that I am sure that I can find a group (or
groups, as in separate groups) of friends with whom I
resonate strongly. It just can take a while to really
settle in. I’m not saying that this so-called “Freeze” doesn’t
exist, but I do think that there’s more to people than
their geographic locale; that just because a local
paper decided to write about it does not mean that a
similar situation cannot exist elsewhere; and that it
is probably sensationalized to some degree through the
media and anecdotes–after all, what are we doing
right here? š
11/19/2006 This user has been removed due to violations of the
Yelp Terms of Service.
11/26/2006 Connie S. says: Here here, DMC. I TOTALLY agree! The freeze is real;
it’s a freaking plague. I’ve lived in this town for 22
longass years and I still have but a handful of close
friends. Although now that I think about it, we don’t
let anyone in either, so, hmm, I guess we’re part of
the problem…
Uh, I have to go meditate on that now…
11/26/2006 Sky C. says: *Everyone* here has their handful of close friends,
and if you aren’t part of your own private little
circle, forget about hanging out with anyone. And it’s
self-perpetuating: after trying many times to make
friends here, I finally gave up and stopped making an
effort. I no longer offer my phone number or email
address when I meet a seemingly friendly new face, I
no longer try to prolong conversation beyond the
simple pleasantries exchanged between strangers, and I
definitely don’t put myself out on the limb for anyone
anymore. I have *never* been like that. I was always
the first to try to be sociable, and I’ve never had
any problem making friends, but now, I’m more of a
loner than anything. Rejection has claimed another
victim. I came here with such high hopes, and now, I’m just
counting the days until I can leave. Plague, indeed.
11/26/2006 Connie S. says: Exactly! It’s a cryin’ shame.
I hear that people are much friendlier in the South,
like Savannah, although in my wildest dreams, I could
never imagine living there. hmmm, I wonder why this
is? Could be the “red state” thing… I’m counting the days too, Sky, although I have three
years and seven months (;-) until my daughter is outta
high school, so I ain’t leaving anytime soon…ugh!
11/26/2006 Sky C. says: Connie, what you’ve heard about the South is generally
true. Sure, “southern hospitality” is a stereotype,
but it’s often a valid one. Before living here, I
spent a few years in northern Florida (near the
Georgia border), and there was plenty of southern
hospitality to be found there — which made the
culture shock of coming here even worse! I’ve traveled all over the country on various tours,
though, and there has not been one single city where I
did not make at least a couple of friends in my
travels — except for Seattle. I guess that should’ve
been a warning sign to stay away, but I really thought
that things would change if I actually *lived* here.
Apparently not.
11/26/2006 Connie S. says: egad, isn’t that sad? Well, southern or not, I hope
your travels take you to someplace wonderfully warm
and friendly!
11/26/2006 Dustin W. says: I’ve been thinking about moving to Seattle from Salt
Lake City (I’ve got to get out of this ultra
conservative hell hole). I visited Seattle last July
and thought it was amazing and that people seemed
incredibly nice. There were multiple instances where I
was having drinks at one pub or another and had people
strike up conversations with me about one thing or
another. But after reading about the “Seattle Freeze”
and the posts on this board, I’m wondering if my
impression was wrong. Is it really that hard to meet
people and make friends?? I’m a very social person
and hate the idea of not having people to do things
with. Do you people really think its harder in Seattle
than other cities?? Should I consider somewhere else
instead, maybe Portland? It seems like if there are so many people experiencing
the “Seattle Freeze” they would band together to end
it.
11/26/2006 Michelle B. says: The freeze is real, but it’s not because were a bunch
of heartless, cold, haters. It’s kind of the way we’ve
been raised to be polite – not to bother people, to
mind our own business, and stay out of the way. Plus,
yes, we like our computers, our books, our coffee, our
independent cinema, and staring at our shoes in the
rain. Makes it kinda hard to meet people. There are some ways to break the freeze – Yelp is a
good way. I’ve met so many awesome people on here that
have similar interests. Each city is pretty unique in their social dynamics.
When I was living in Houston I only had one friend
outside of my work group. I’m sure some of that was my
fault since I traveled so much, but honestly, I never
really met people there. When I lived in SF I met tons
and tons and tons of people. Lots of people to go
party with or see the new hip thing, but very few
people who I had a close connection with. It may take more time to meet people here, but when
you do strike up a relationship with them, it’s for
real.
11/26/2006 terrell m. says: Everyone has a different experience. Like I said
above, I think people are great here. And as a matter
or fact, there are quite a few people on Yelp that
have become friends through this site. I say if you
want to move here, do it. You have to experience it
for yourself and draw your own conclusions. If you
don’t like it after a while, you can move somewhere
else. I lived in Boston for 3 years before I decided I
could conclusively say it wasn’t the place for me. Now
I’m here and while I’m not friends with every bloke on
the block, I do feel finally like this is my home
town. One thing I’d advise is to be persistent. “you have to
kiss a lot of frogs before you find your
prince”…you’ll meet a lot of flakes and jerks, but
eventually you’ll find quality people.
11/26/2006 Sarah B. says: I love the Seattle freeze. I’m one of those people
that don’t like to waste my time on chit-chat, would
rather have acquaintances to party with and the few
people I do trust are counted on one hand. Just the
way I like it. Every time I’ve gone out with the intent to meet new
people I do. A smile, some silly anecdote and before
you know it you have a group of people to talk with.
Though I never remember their names, find their
numbers in my purse later, that’s the way I like my
social gatherings. Casual, fun and nothing too
serious. Sometimes you may see them again at the same
place and relive the same fun time, but no one cares
that you never called or that they never did either.
And they never expect you to remember their names. And then there are those nights you don’t want anyone
to bother you. And Seattle respects that vibe. You
don’t need to push off the advances for social
interaction, they understand and pursue it elsewhere.
Which is something I really enjoy about this city. I guess it’s all a matter of perspective and what you
are really looking for. Some of us will always be
loners and some social butterflies. All I know is
that Seattle lets me be a little of both and never
holds it against me.
11/26/2006 This user has been removed due to violations of the
Yelp Terms of Service.
11/26/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: someone described ppl here as friendly but not
welcoming, I thought that was pretty accurate way to
describe the freeze
i think there just isn’t much curiosity or interest in
other (new)people, and that is experienced by
newcomers as unfriendliness and coldness.
they’re just not that into you – whether it’s because
of reserved politeness as Michelle B says or lack of
interest in wasting time on chit-chat as Sarah B
describes, I think it’s important not to take it
personally. Maybe that’s easy for me to do because i
lean toward being a loner.
whatever it is – there is a lack of warmth and I would
describe the people in general as cold and gray like
the weather,
I’m kinda surprised by it because I think of Seattle
as historically a pioneer city, and a place that
people move to from other places, and i would think
part of that is an openness to new experiences/ppl. it
seems that isn;t the case.
the friendliest ppl I have met, meaning those who
reciprocate in my overtures of friendship, are native
to this area or from Arizona – whatever that means.
A couple weeks back I arrived early at a bar to meet a
friend and ended up chatting with about a half dozen
regulars who were warm and welcoming – so much so I
thought I had fallen into a worm hole and ended up in
Chicago or San Francisco – both notoriously friendly
cities. Their friendliness toward me was startling –
which is why I will never love this city, and think of
being here as a long term temporary situation (till
huzbeau comes to his senses or I have had enough).
I prefer my people of the warm, passionate and
welcoming variety, which is rare here, and a big part
of the reason I make sure to go home every other
month.
For someone looking to escape a conservative town, and
perhaps harsh midwestern weather, i would suggest San
Francisco – but it is so expensive to live there, I
think Portland might be a good second choice.
11/26/2006 This user has been removed due to violations of the
Yelp Terms of Service.
11/26/2006 Charlie D. says: I like to think of myself as an out going person and
yes sometimes I can go over board. I too am a native
Texan and am extremely friendly. I moved here a few
months ago and I have adjusted to Seattle. Please
don’t get me wrong I am not a Seattle hater. Everyone
knows it’s hard making friends but it is harder here.
I have some life time friends that I made in Houston
that I really miss. I live a busy life style and need
real friends that can handle my personality.
Thankfully I have met some real good people thru yelp
and am extremely glad I did!!!!
11/26/2006 Melissa J. says: I just moved here in early October from Florida (where
I grew up) and shortly before that I lived in
Louisiana for 6 years. People here are much like the
people there, except people here don’t say “Bless you”
when someone sneezes. People are aloof everywhere. I have tried to make
friends in the other places I have lived, and either
have had very few good friends (usually people I grew
up with) or I have a lot of acquaintances and no real
friends. I have to say that the times we live in lend
themselves to the “Freeze,” Seattle or otherwise.
People are too busy tuning everyone else with their
cell phones and iPods. No one trusts anyone else, and
I have to say I cannot blame them. The people that
have come into my life have rarely proven themselves
to be worthy of the term “friend.” If they have
troubles, I am there for them. If I have troubles, my
“friends” vanish. It’s as though people will only be
friends with someone if their friend never has bad
times and needs them. Everything seems so superficial
nowadays. Over the years I have learned to enjoy
being alone. I do enjoy good company, too, but it is
usually a rare occurrence. I have not found any friends yet in Seattle, but
honestly, it doesn’t bother me. People are, for the
most part, friendly here. I am happy enough with
that. I’ll hold out for the real deal when it comes
to friends.
11/26/2006 Melissa J. says: I do have to add that how easily you make friends also
depends on what age group you are. I am 35 and since
I was in my mid-20s, making friends has been hard (no
matter where I was). That could be because starting
in the mid-20s, people start settling in and settling
down and getting married and starting families.
Single friends usually don’t fit into the scenario.
And forget it when they start having kids!
11/26/2006 Jaz M. says: Brilliantly put, Melissa J. Thank you for that. :o)
11/28/2006 Brian S. says: I was born outside the US, and grew up early years in
Eastern WA, but have lived in the Seattle area long
enough to be considered “native” (like, the last 22
years… although new Seattlites tend to give
themselves 6 months or so before considering themslves
“native” it seems). I see the freeze from a different perspective. Like
Michelle I think there’s a social politeness meme
aspect to it, but moreso I just think it’s an honest
approach to relationships. You can’t be tight friends
with everybody you meet, and deep relationships don’t
just form immediately. I find the east coast –
everybody is your best friend the first time you meet
them – “heat”, for lack of a better term, is just a
bit disingenuous… not that it isn’t well
intentioned, but I don’t feel like I really know
people any better just because they’re extremely
outgoing, it feels like a facade. In Seattle we just
make you work for it harder… but once you break
through that icy shell you know whether or not you
really know somebody, or if they’re going to continue
to be an acquaintance.
11/28/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: friendliness is disingenuous…interesting thought.
11/28/2006 Ariel S. says: As a Pacific Northwest native, my theory on the
Seattle Freeze is that it’s partially the result of
the city growing so quickly in the last 10-15 years.
There was a HUGE influx of population here in the
’90s, and I think it’s made some locals wary of the
new folks. “Who are you? Why are you here? Go away.” That said, even as a native — I feel the freeze. I’ve
tried getting to know my neighbors and found it damn
near impossible.
11/28/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: “Who are you? Why are you here? Go away.”
ha ha ha
that’s a theory I’ve thought of too, except that 90’s
boom happened in other places as well (such as SF and
Austin)and they don;t have a frosty rep.
i am just fascinated by it all….
11/28/2006 Brian S. says: MMAD, war is peace
slavery is freedom… seriously though, I’m not practicing doublethink…
just the overt in your face friendliness (the kind my
east coast friends seem to be craving when they
complain about the freeze) doesn’t feel “real” to my
Seattle sensibilities
11/28/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: you forgot civil war is insurgency…. maybe the east coasters should form a club: friendly
in seattle, that way reserved seattlites could stay
away and lonely transplants could know where to go for
some love, however fleeting and shallow š but really, I have heard these complaints from other
than east coasters, altho I do understand what you
mean by that being a diffferent brand of freindly they
got goin on over there – the word rambunctious comes
to mind
11/28/2006 Andrew E. says: There are going to be things you do and don’t like
about any region when it comes to people. I like the
example Brian S. used for the East Coast. Your instant
new best friend is likely to ask “where do you work?”,
“what do you do?”, and “where do you live?” (they
might as well ask “how much do you make?”) trying to
gauge your usefulness to them and their lives. I find
it entirely disingenuous and actually appreciate a
city that understands boundaries and privacy and a
population that asks “what are you reading?” and “what
do you think about x?”. Now to have my cake and eat it to: I tend to make
friends in Seattle by seeking out those that are not
from around here, and more often than not they tend to
be from the East Coast. The reason has to do with a
different aspect of the Seattle freeze. It’s not that
you can’t meet Seattlites, or even hang out on
occasion. The real problem is that they’ll never
reciprocate an invite, and you end up feeling like it
is an entirely lopsided relationship. I think it has
to do with Michelle B.’s point that we were brought up
to mind our own business, but it’s being taken much
too far.
To be continued! (because this has become too large for Posterous)
The Seattle Freeze Ā« Brian Hermanās blog
December 14, 2009Thereās a supposed phenomenon known as the Seattle Freeze. It is said people in
this town are openly friendly, almost in an extreme, but they donāt easily dive deep into new relationships. So people seem nice but they donāt really want to be friends with you. Seattleites (I love that word) are somewhat polarized about if itās a real thing or not.
Iāve read blogs and forums discussing this and many people say itās absolutely true and āhappened to themā. So far I can not comment on the validity of this; Iāve not been in town long enough to form any friendships. But I can tell you that the people of Seattle are amazingly welcoming! This is nothing like what Iām used to in Denver
My wife points out that Denverās culture stems from itās old-west roots and the cowboy ethos of āminding your businessā still pervades our sensibilities. Thatās not to say Denverites (not as cool a word) are cold, but thereās a definite edge. Random conversations with strangers take place when required and scarcely go beyond the basics of ānice dayā or āyour dog is so cute!ā; restaurant workers are polite enough but donāt really engage beyond the dance of their profession and store workers will largely ignore you unless you approach them.
Not so in Seattle. From my first meal there I was taken aback by how engaged my server
was in talking to me, she was really pushing a conversation not just an ordering process. The folks at the coffee shop are overwhelmingly bubbly and have a way of lifting up your day (imagine your best Starbucks barista and then double it). I have a little pub down the street from my apartment and Iāve been 3 times, when I walk in the door they call āHey Denver!ā from the conversation that I had with a waiter on my first visit and they come and TALK to me. Iāve had strangers seated at the bar strike up detailed conversations about not just the game on TV but about my job, my move, and their lives in Seattle.
None of these conversations have been superficial and when I revert to my learned behavior of neatly wrapping up the topic and going back to āminding my businessā these people donāt give up on it, they ask another question or come back to something Iād said earlier and continue the conversation.
My apartment is on the ground floor and rather than ignoring me sitting in there, people wave at me when walking by! People chat me up at the bus stop. I donāt know if there is a Seattle Freeze or not, if there is it will take me months to discover, but in the mean time these people make it hard not to feel engaged in the city and its culture.
Iāll keep you posted!
Clearly Brian is doing it right. Perhaps his time in standoffish Denver, as he put it, is what puts the Seattleites in a light to be appreciated.
Glad to hear things are off to a good start, Brian!
Seattle Freeze 