11/28/2006 Tyler H. says:
What does it mean that this topic makes me want to
shut down and not talk to anyone? Actually, I tend to agree with Michelle and Brian.
There probably is a “chill” but its not so much that
people in Seattle are “unfriendly” but rather just
that something about the climate and our sensibilities
makes Seattlites less fond of more superficial
friendliness. Speaking as a born-and-breed native,
I’ve never really noticed the chill. But, my wife
moved her from Texas and she noticed it when she moved
here, so I can’t deny it doesn’t exist. But, at the
same time, I know my wife now prefers “the Seattle
way,” so I think its a bit unfair to talk about the
“Seattle Freeze” like an entirely negative thing. I think that Seattlites prefer smaller and closer
circles of friends. And, as a result we don’t go
around actively making new friends. We’ll meet new
people through our existing friends or through work.
We’re polite and friendly to other people we
encounter, but don’t think to try to befriend the
person sitting next to us at a coffee shop or a bar.
And, we get a little befuddled when someone tries to
befriend like that. Does that make it difficult to meet people if you are
new to the area? Yeah, probably. And, as the Official
Spokesperson for Seattle(tm) (I just voted myself into
the position), I apologize to everyone who feels like
they are left out in the cold. All I can say is that
Seattlites will be your friends if you keep trying. I
know this because many of my friends were born in
distant, misty lands like Illinois or Alabama. And I
even married one of those Texans. I don’t resent people observing that Seattlites might
behave different than people in other parts of the
country. But, I do sort of resent the implication that
the way we behave is in some way “wrong” or “bad.” But, maybe that’s just me shutting down.
11/28/2006 Jon L. says: Aye – with ya Tyler. This native has always had a
couple close friends at any one time. The folks I know
that are social “hubs” are usually Californians or
similar. People seem to have their “thing” up here,
and spending a lot of energy maintaining relationships
is energy not spent on whatever they’re in to.
“Quality not quantity” and all that. While it does
make it hard to sync with people in general, it’s like
an astronomical thing – there will be an eclipse or a
comet passing, and suddenly the person next to you at
the show is open for new connections and talkative.
Brush up on your sun spot prediction skills and look
for the folks that are looking around, or at least at
something other than their feet. Then again, perhaps we’re just descended from a
Sasquatch and a mountain hermit, and we like it this
way.
11/28/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: it seems to me that as this thread has progressed, the
freeze has gone from being judged as wrong and bad to
described as a way of relating to new friends and
acquainances in a more reserved and slower fashion
than many new to the area ppl are used to or
comfortable with.
but as the population increases, it is interesting to
see how or if this changes it’s all good – if folks don’t like it – they’ll leave
i guess
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11/28/2006 Jeff G. says: I’ve been here about 12 years and have, of course,
made some friends. But it IS different. There’s a sort
of reserve about native Washingtonians that’s
different than other states. There’s sort of stronger
social code here than other places. The first time I noticed it was on my first day here
in Seattle and I Jaywalked on a completely empty
street on First Hill. The other people behind me
literally gave me looks like I’d just killed a dog or
something. The other place I really notice it is in
movie theaters. I laugh pretty easily at movies and
I’m always amazed at how quiet so many of the other
theater goers are. Having said all that, the people that I have met who
are natives, are all the type of people who’d give you
the shirt off your back.
11/28/2006 Tyler H. says: Come on, Blake! Don’t sell yourself short! Why only
mention a line or two about Seattle freezing when you
can write a standard five paragraph essay like the
rest of us!!! Oh, and Jeff, can I have my shirt back? It’s cold!
11/28/2006 Laina B. says: Hey DMC- do you have a specific time/date for the
coffee meet-up? Can we do it on a weekend? Seriously,
you should plan this thing. I’ll be there.
11/28/2006 Jaz M. says: Seattle is freezing and so cold that my nipples could
cut glass. I’m just sayin’.
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11/29/2006 Jessica V. says: Having been here a few months,
I don’t think the East Coast is necessarily
friendlier, it’s just we are louder. It’s normal in
NYC, Philly and DC to just talk to everybody all the
time: you yell at the guy behind the deli counter for
getting your order wrong, you laugh at the drunk
teenagers on the subway with the old man sitting on
the seat next to you, you bitch outloud while reading
the newspaper, you ask strangers on the street wearing
cute shoes where they got them, you just…verbalize.
All the time. Seattlites are nice, as far as I can
tell, and they have a beautiful city. But I have to
say, I am really homesick for the loud, rowdy,
pugnacious East.
12/22/2006 G S. says: I’m going on 50 and I moved to Seattle from the
Midwest over 18 years ago. I used to think it was me
until other people started talking about the Freeze.
It really effected my self esteem at first. I have always been friendly and outgoing and have
never had problems finding warm and genuine friends
until I moved here. People here are not friendly or
neighborly in general, merely polite and courteous…
until it come time to make plans or keep a date. I’ve never been blown off so many times anywhere else.
And when I’ve confronted people for simply not
showing up at an arranged event or what-have-you
(without calling, of course) I often was made to feel
like my demands were unreasonable and that I was
somehow being needy and infringing on their
“autonomy.” Sorry, it’s just that I spent a wad on
the dinner I cooked because you said you were coming
over. (Oh, I didn’t think our plans were definite. My
bad.) Or because I turned down subsequent invitations
because I thought I had a prior engagement and now
it’s 9:00 PM on Saturday and I’m left hanging with two
show tickets. (Oh, well I figured you’d just call
someone else to go with you) Now, why would I do
that, when we had plans??? I’ve noticed that the majority of people who deny the
Freeze are natives, while folks from elsewhere are
nearly unanimous in their experience. Could it be
that Seattleites have a completely different criteria
for what constitutes a “friend”? I’ve heard
Seattleites describe feeling “intruded upon” and
“smothered” when going elsewhere and encountering
people who show an interest in them. Another thing I’ve noticed over the years when I’ve
been allowed to momentarily hover near an established
tribe of “friends” is that they’re seldom actually
friends. They’re really more like “frequent social
acquaintances”. They don’t really ever just hang out
around the house and… just hang out. They don’t
know anything about one another’s private
lives—maybe not even met one another’s SO’s. They
don’t appear to become involved in intimate
friendships much—or not for long. I knew one young
woman who changed tribes regularly, moving people
through her life almost in order. When someone got to
know her a little too well, out they went. Almost
like she didn’t want any witnesses. The most telling thing that I ever heard a native say
was while watching an episode of Friends. “AS IF, a
bunch of people are gonna hang out all the time and go
in and out of one another’s houses like that and do
stuff TOGETHER always. Shyhuh, right.” Where I’m from, that’s what friends do.
12/22/2006 Phil S. says: We’re talking about fingerprints and snowflakes here.
There is a freeze In every major city depending on
where you are in it and in every city or town, people
have their reasons for being the way they are. Maybe
it’s a stressful job. Maybe it’s depression. Maybe
they are on some kind of medications. Maybe like, me
they have MS (Like a lot of people in this state do)
and are just plain fatigued at times. That’s just the
tip of the iceberg. To try to figure those people out
is futile. We are individuals with individual
strengths and weaknesses. All we can do is to be who
we are and if we want to say hi to someone who never
says anything and just keeps walking, etc., then so be
it. I’m the only one who has to look at myself in the
mirror. The point is, be your self and don’t look to
others to validate the way you are. Maybe others will
catch on. That’s where I’m at on the subject. Merry
Christmas everybody. Or whatever your holiday is.
12/22/2006 Zach Cares G. says: Huh? “… be your self and don’t look to others to
validate the way you are?” I don’t believe the issue of personal validation is on
the table here. We’re not looking for others to
validate us; we’re looking for others to go to a
goddamn bar with us, or come over to dinner or shoot
drugs in an alley or whatever. I’m lucky enough to know a couple people in town, and
have a coworker I can grab a beer with from time to
time, but it is looking like a long, cold winter for
me. And spring. And summer. And if the fall is,
too, maybe I’ll be moving on. Everywhere I’ve ever lived before, I could walk into a
bar as a single, solitary guy and have just about a
100% chance of winding up in a conversation with some
stranger. Generally without lifting a finger. Here,
most of the time I go out I can’t even see an
opportunity to talk to anyone without rudely butting
in on their conversation. Groups of people arranged
in the classic Roman “tortoise” formation: armor out,
conversation in. I walk into a bar here and I feel
like a ghost. On the rare occasions I’ve had any
luck, it’s always another recent transplant, or
someone from out of town.
12/22/2006 Miss Mary Ann D. says: GAWD grumpy – you are SOOOO needy!
😉
did you not get the unwelcome to seattle memo? it is
considered polite to completely ignore someone
and if you are introduced to a group – you can epect
them to look you up and down and then commence with
conversation – they don;t want to bother you by
including you in it.
honestly – I thought it was an island thing –
apparently not
12/22/2006 Sky C. says: Yup, GG. And even if someone’s alone at the bar — or
coffee shoppe or what have you — you are still likely
to be interrupting their own private inner
conversation. Tortises indeed, alone and in groups. You are also correct that the issue — at least as I
see it — has absolutely nothing to do with personal
validation. For me, it’s about making friends: people
with whom I might spend time, share things, and
perhaps build up a sense of ongoing trust. The
conversation at the bar is difficult enough to find,
but it is even more challenging to find people who
will part with their phone numbers or email addresses
without sighing reluctantly as they write down the
info — let alone people who will actually return
phone calls or call *me* or make or keep plans (as
G.S. also observed a few posts back). Yes, Phil, people have their issues in every city, but
I’ve yet to see another city that collectively is
*this* outwardly cold. As I mentioned before, I have
been to literally every major city in the continental
US, and have spent quite a bit of time in many of
them. I can honestly say that New York City — with
all of its reputation for being a hostile, cold place
— has a much warmer personality toward outsiders than
Seattle does. Even when I came through town on concert
tours before I lived here, I always had the most
trouble meeting people in Seattle — and I never had
that problem anywhere else. I’ve talked to many others
who have expressed the same sentiments. There’s a
pattern here, folks, and that pattern just doesn’t
exist in other cities. I know you natives don’t want to hear this, and I
understand why: this is a beautiful area, with so much
potential and so many opportunities, and it hurts to
hear such a treasure badmouthed in any way. Believe
me, it hurts *me* to express these feelings, because I
wish I didn’t see things this way. And I’m trying my
hardest to be part of the solution, to strike up
random conversations with strangers and to try to
still go out on those limbs and reach out to people,
but it’s difficult when I hit almost constant
rejection. I volunteer, I work in groups, I go to
school and am in social situations all the time, yet I
still hit these brick walls…. and I don’t understand
why. I’m amazed at the variety of perspectives here,
though. This is quite an interesting discussion.
12/22/2006 Tiffany S. says: Just my two cents … I have felt the Freeze in many
towns including LA and New York. One place I felt it
less was SF but I never lived there as an adult. I
felt it worst in the Hudson Valley within an insular
group who’d grown up together so it was like they’d
forgotten what it was like to meet a new person or
introduce one for that matter. A lot of people I know
here have lived here for a long time and may suffer
from the same insularity. Sometimes it just seems like
their lives are already full. But to just stand
someone up, I’ve never had that happen. I’ve never
experienced that here. That’s just flaky, not
freezing. I’m not saying I don’t know what you’re talking about
because I do. I just wish I could explain it. Maybe we’re a small minority reaching out to other
people. My husband really isn’t interested in making
friends so if someone reached out to him he’d probably
freeze. Doesn’t mean he’s not a great guy. Not
everyone needs new friends. Or maybe they don’t think
they do. For every freeze I would hope there’s some warmth.
This is our first Christmas in town, and we have four
invitations for events over the holiday..from people
who live here…and we will show up. Take THAT,
freeze!
12/23/2006 sam k. says: Seattle freeze? psh. More like Seattle 2 ton slab of
ice to your face wall thing… No I’m just kidding.
I’ve lived here for about 8 months now, my previous
residence being in the bay area California, and I was
lucky enough to make a few friends, some being closer
than others naturally. The others I’d have to say are
more like acquaintances. So yeah, Seattle freeze,
umm, I’ll take two?
01/27/2007 Laural B. says: Two tricks to make friends in Seattle:
1) Sleep with someone who has a lot of friends and end
things on good terms.
2) Find the “smoking room” at a party.
01/27/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: ha ha ha Laural
what about virgin non smokers??
01/27/2007 David H. says: Idea:
Get out there a do some theater.
I have been acting, locally, since 2000, and I have
made a TON of friends.
By the way, most actors love booze and sex.
Ain’t nothin’ frozen about that, yo.
01/28/2007 Sara E. says: I think that the famous Seattle politesse and the
Seattle freeze are two sides of the same coin. I have heard from many people – especially East
Coasters – that people here aren’t “real”, that
they’ll be polite to your face but rude behind your
back, or that they’ll make plans they have no
intention of keeping. I’m a native
and I have been guilty of both of these things –
because I have been raised to be polite, and don’t
want to hurt someone’s feelings by turning them down,
or brushing them off if I don’t like them. To me,
many non-natives, and especially people from the East
Coast, seem kind of abrasive and agressive, always
forcing their opinions down your throat. They seem
overly quick to argue and assert their ideas, and
overly quick to make friends. I don’t think that’s
good or bad – I really want to avoid placing any value
judgements on people’s cultural differences. There
are just very, very different modes of interacting,
and sometimes people who are not native to Seattle
don’t really share my same sensibilities. Seattelites
seem to have an agreement going on – that we’ll say
“yes” to avoid hurt feelings but not count on that
“yes” until we know each other. Maybe it’s a privacy thing. Exchanging numbers seems
kind of intimate. I don’t want to make a date to hang
out with someone I don’t know. I’d almost rather be
alone than have some one-on-one time with someone who
I might not like. Maybe that sounds bad, but really,
it’s true. Also – and I can’t say definitively that
this is a “Seattle” thing, but I feel like it must be
from the comments above – I don’t feel comfortable
giving out my number unless I share some direct
contact with the person I’m giving it to – whether we
work together, go to school together, have a friend in
common, or need to exchange numbers for some other
specific reason. Basically, I think Seattleites need
a concrete REASON to exchange numbers. I hate the fact that Seattle is a lonely place to move
to and I want to apologize to everyone who has felt
personally slighted, frustrated and rejected. But it
isn’t personal – it’s cultural. There are subtleties
to the Seattle way of interacting that take time to
learn.
01/28/2007 Ellen L. says: “But it isn’t personal – it’s cultural.” You are right. It isn’t personal and it is cultural. It’s also rude.
01/28/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: great post Sara E
but I don;t understand this idea of accepting an
invitation with no intention of keeping it, that
doesn;t seem polite at all.
there are a million reasons to give someone if you
don’t care to join them; other plans, illness, family
obligations, the list seems endless.
it seems to me that polite would be “thanks for
thinking of me, I have other plans.”
after a few attempts, folks get the message. my sense is that “Polite Seattleites” prefer people
who are like them – they aren;t big into diversity or
different points of view, and view those things as
some sort of confrontation. I have met so many new comers who are so hurt by the
reticence of the locals, and I understand their
reaction to a certain extent. my personal philosphy is
that it’s your loss if you don;t want to know me.
I have also attended social functions where people
refuse to include me in the little chit chat that
occurs in a group, and I have been literally left
sitting on my own after being introduced to the group.
I have observed this happening to others as well.
I don;t beleive that can be characterized as polite in
any way
01/28/2007 Jon L. says: Aye – well said Sara. Regarding the ‘yes means no’ thing, I think it’s all
about context. There’s a significant difference
between “hey we should go grab a drink some time” and
“do you want to meet me here again tomorrow at 6?”. While I agree it’s the right thing to say “yeah – for
sure” to the former regardless of intent, agreeing to
the latter if you don’t intend to show up isn’t very
nice.
01/28/2007 Jessica V. says: First I was sad. Then frustrated. Then homesick. Then
just full-on annoyed. Then righteous, nodding my head
in approval (Thanks Michelle M). Then frustrated. Then
Sad again. This thread is an emotional roller
coaster. I’m exhausted.
01/28/2007 Shane D. says: Yea, a relative came to visit me from Maine. He said
he read an article about Seattle being politically
correct to the point of being unreceptive to anything
socially deemed as not politically correct. I didn’t see his point than, but I see it now. Also I do think this not asking or talking to someone
has become polite in Seattle, after a few months of
being here I’ve seen myself not asking people to do
something even though I get the sense they want
too….out of sheer fear that it might seem too
forward. So now I am struggling to break my own ice…guH!
01/29/2007 Jessica V. says: I just reread Sara E’s comment about how she often
finds East Coasters aggressive and abrasive. It’s
very eye opening for me. It’s funny, I expected
Seattlites would be really opinionated and open and
worldy, and I think I got that impression from several
good friends back East who were from here and were so
open and cool, and also this general (albeit silly)
impression along the Atlantic that everyone out west
is a kindly free spirit type. But now that I think about it, perhaps that’s the
reason my Seattlite friends stay in NY and DC,
because they happen to be comfortable around us
obnoxious Easterners. I think Northeastern cities pride themselves on being
frank and assertive, you can’t really get what you
need without throwing yourself into the mix. But I can
see how that would come off as too much out here. It’s
something to think about.
01/29/2007 Sarah B. says: I agree Jessica V. I am one of those obnoxious East Coasters from NY who
really has fallen for the Northwest. I guess that’s
why I tend to get along with the Britisih so well too.
We are over-opinionated, assertive, and tend to
sometimes be a bit too loud. Especially when we’re
drinking. But we’re also no nonsense and very honest. Which I
have found a lot of West Coasters find refreshing.
The whole Seattlelites saying “yes” to avoid hurt
feelings is just silly and rude. Luckily, I haven’t
found anyone around here that have acted that way.
01/29/2007 Tyler H. says: While I think people can debate whether what Sara E is
saying is socially “right” or socially “wrong.” As a
fellow born-and-raised Washingtonian, I do agree that
her observations are pretty correct. In addition, I
think that Jon is correct when he mentions that there
are certain contexts to the “yes means no” thing. I’d
never back out of specific plans with someone without
telling them and being honest. But, I have been guilty
of saying “sure” when faced with a generic “we should
hang out sometime.” That said, I think that what Sara hit most directly on
the head (and Jessica noticed) is the fact that, from
a Seattlites perspective, the problem isn’t
necessarily ours… its the other persons. To me, a
lot of people from the East Coast (or even LA,
whatever) seem too loud and abrasive. So assertive
that, from my perspective, it sometimes feels needy. I mean, when you travel abroad, you hear lots of
stories about the stereotypical loud American. Now,
personally, I don’t think we are necessarily loud.
But, when I meet people from other parts of the
country, I begin to see that a bit, because of how
comparatively gregarious others are to me. But, that’s
not to say its a bad thing, just a different (for lack
of a different term) “social volume.” As I mentioned in another thread though, I think I
just get frustrated when people move here, and then
tell the people who live here that the way we do
things is “wrong” or “bad.” To me, THAT’S rude.
01/29/2007 Jessica V. says: Tyler, this is very well put and well taken: “As I mentioned in another thread though, I think I
just get frustrated when people move here, and then
tell the people who live here that the way we do
things is “wrong” or “bad.” To me, THAT’S rude” and “social volume” is a useful new phrase, thanks,
and one I’ll try and think of next time I am out at
the bar. however In my opinion, it just seems kind of tragic for
people to close themselves off from welcoming people
to their community using the excuse that “well, that’s
my culture. That’s just what we do. So you can either
enjoy your loneliness, or take off.” Anyone who has
ever ventured out of their own home town or gets a new
job has been the new guy. And how you treat someone in
that spot is, in my opinion, is more a reflection of
what kind of a person you are than what kind of place
you are from. I’ve had the good fortune of meeting some friends here
who are either also new, remember what it’s like or
(apparently) the exception to the rule, so I’m not
complaining. I like Seattle. Maybe that’s why I don’t
like this notion that you have to get used to people
not wanting to get to know you if you move here. Does
that make sense?
01/29/2007 Tyler H. says: Completely, Jessica. And, I agree completely, when you
say “it just seems kind of tragic for people to close
themselves off from welcoming people to their
community.” I hope you don’t think that’s what I’m
endorsing. I think I probably just get a bit wound up
when people complain about this whole “Seattle chill”
thing because it often sounds to me like a bit of
Seattle-bashing (at least when its not discussed
constructively); and I’m a bit of a fan of Seattle.
So, I probably get too defensive. Ultimately, I want people who move her to feel
welcome. But, I also want the people I already know
and love here to not feel obligated to change the way
they do things. Because, for the most part, I like the
way people are here. But, at the same time, I’m married to a woman who
moved here from Texas. So, I feel like I’m walking
proof that the “Seattle chill” isn’t real… or at
least it can be over come. 🙂
01/29/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: I think this is such an interesting discussion Here’s an example of different ways I have noticed
Nowesterners are dealing with the influx: In Ballard, there is a neighborhood association that
holds “welcome to the neighborhood” events: come have
coffee, find out about all the ways you can be
involved in your community, and why it is so special
to us, the folks who have been living here awhile. So
a tight knit community can maintain the tight knit
quality by embracing newcomers into the fold. And in
turn the newcomers can share their ideas for building
the community while it changes Bainbridge Island: nothing at all to welcome the huge
influx of newcomers. A great many of us who have
ventured out to volunteer and be involved in community
events have been treated in such a way that it is
obvious we are not welcome. So we stop trying, we
stick to ourselves or only associate with other
newcomers, and the old timers wonder why the community
is losing the tight knit feeling. that’s my personal observation and experience and yes,
I think I will move to Ballard at some point, but only
if I can’t get the huz back to CA
01/29/2007 David H. says: hmmm…yes, I love this topic too. I am not sure if I
can contribute much, as I do not think I have
experienced the chill, but my cousin from Santa Fe
complained a lot when she moved up here (and she was
suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder, or
something like it, as we have limited sunshine), so
maybe I have little perspective. Seattle remains racially segregated. I was fortunate
to attend Garfield High School, and I appreciated the
diversity inside the school’s walls. Conversely, I
could not ignore the fact the the neighborhood
surrounding the school (circa 1990) was pretty white
free. Humans are afraid (and I do not think that is a
Seattle only phenomenon). I do not take the bus, but I
used to commute to work from West Seattle to Capitol
Hill in the early nineties, and I noticed that folks
would wear headphones (and this was pre-ipod, people,
so I imagine things are “worse” now), and avoid eye
contact to keep from interacting with strange
strangers. Do people in mass transit systems in
Chicago, NYC, and SFC, etc. chat it up with each
other? The polite thing seems suspect too. But if the way
people drive is any indication, the laid back, take
your sweet ass time, “you first” attitude could be
translated as some kind of general passivity. I was
raised in Seattle, and I am polite, but I do not think
that the NW culture did something extra to influence
my attitude. Hey, we were all told don’t stare at the
handicapped. I guess newcomers should just create their own
networks. Shit, look what Yelp and the Internet can do
alone (but, from a distance, everything is easier –
more comfortable).
I moved to LA for a minute, and I was able to make
connections, friends, and I started an actor’s
network, which gave me connections to others
(strangers) in my field. It was not the attitudes of
the people that brought me back home either. I wish I could say about this. Maybe I have not been
living abroad enough to really feel the chill. Maybe I
am just so goddamn charming I make friends wherever I
go. Nah, can’t be that.
01/29/2007 Audrey M. says: I just wanna say: You’ve gotta LOVE a topic that
begins in March of certain year and carries enough
weight to continue far into January of the next! Yelp
on peeps!
01/29/2007 Brian S. says: MMAD, maybe there’s a super chilling Bainbridge
Chill!? I don’t think they like any of us
“mainlanders” over there…
01/29/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: no, in NYC and Sf we wear sunglasses and headphones on
the train, even if is raining
oh, and also reading – we wear headphones, read and
wear dark glasses. this behavior seems to be confined
to public transit
01/29/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: totally Bri – I think they keep everything on the
shabby and mediocre side to discourage visitors, but
it is
s l o w l y changing
02/01/2007 Holly F. says: Coming from CA, Since MMAD just posted this talk
thread within ours, may I chime in ? I’m native to the Bay Area, but lived in Seattle for 4
1/2 yrs… When I lived in Seattle, I was going to UW, so I had
no problem meeting people and making friends – I met
some of my nearest and dearest friends in Seattle.
Though none of them are FROM Seattle. They are from
Hong Kong, LA, and Thailand/Indiana/etc. When I visit Seattle nowadays, I find it relatively
easy to get around – this city is growing so fast! and
first-rate! and people are so nice, but there’s not
that extra **** je ne sais quoi **** that makes me
feel the warm & fuzzies… I always catch a cold in
Seattle, and it’s kind of a metaphor. Seattle-ites are so polite, though! Reminds me of the
midwest. I think MMAD is right, it’s changing 🙂 at the rate of
water to ice at 34 degrees F and a wind chill factor
of -3 … I have no idea. 02/01/2007 Tiffany S. says: The “freeze” actually came up in my job interview
today, and I was happy to say that I had enough
Californian in me to not suffer from it (the job
requires loquaciousness). But, I was kinda laughing
that it even came up.
02/17/2007 erika d. says: My two cents (and a bit of a venting session) –Count
me in as another who has been afftected by The Freeze.
It’s crazy!! but…Why do we expect Seattle to be like
other cities?? It is not! Do not assume that tall
buildings and streets filled with cars, metro buses,
stores and people (!) makes Seattle a city, as defined
by those of us from other cities understand the
definition of the word “City”. As soon as we accept
this we will be one step closer to resolution! Maybe.
It’s going on 3 1/2 years for me. If I hadn’t formed
an attachment to another non-Seattle-ite (who also
suffers but is reluctant to leave due to job decency)
during my time here I would have been gone already!
Things I’ve learned in my quest to form a social
circle in Seattle:
-Enroll in a university. Out of my entire university
populace I now officially have 9 friends, who live in
Seattle, 2 of those whom I see on a fairly regular
basis, 7 of whom now call me up once every few months
to have lunch and then cancel.
-Don’t volunteer. Let’s see, so far I’ve volunteered
with PCC, the YMCA, Kexp, a foodbank, and a couple of
other places. Sorta scary. Kexp was the best place to
feel estranged, a couple of people made attempts to
converse (!) and the music was good.
-Work DOES facilitate social contact in the form of
people who are FOWW–Friends Only While Working. Thanks for reading. If anyone knows of or wants to
join an Anti-Freeze gathering send me a message.
02/17/2007 Traci R. says: ABSOLUTELY! it is so hard to make friends here. people
love to be real friendly and say they’ll do anything
for you but they won’t call to go hang out or agree to
any definite plans. I’ve lived in Boston before and
never had any trouble making friends but here you
practically have to beg for someone to go out with
you! Now that i’ve been here almost 8 months things
are changing a little but come on… thats a long
time!
02/19/2007 g g. says: We’ve spent a great deal of time in Seattle over the
past few years, and haven’t really experienced “The
Freeze”. In any case, people from other states or
nations aren’t exempt from the behaviours described in
the article or this thread.
02/19/2007 Derek B. says: Wow, it took a long time to read through this thread! I moved to Seattle a little over three years ago, and
have definitely experienced “the freeze.” My
experience of it has been similar to what others have
described here: the aloof politeness, the
non-committal attitude toward hanging out, and an
unwillingness to open up (personally, emotionally) to
new people. It’s almost as if Seattle natives have an
innate fear of being hurt in personal relationships. It was suggested earlier in this thread that true
friendships don’t happen immediately or overnight, and
I certainly agree with this. You don’t get to know
someone, and develop the sort of easy rapport that
generally comes from years of comradeship, in a flash.
I don’t expect anything like that. What I do expect,
however, is the opportunity to get to know people
beyond a superficial “hanging out,” which seems to be
the Seattle way. Fortunately, I have a job in tourism, and a lifestyle
that puts me in contact with large numbers of people
who are not from Seattle but quite often move here. As
a result, I have made friends in my time here but very
few of them are FROM here. My two dearest friends in
Seattle are from my home state of Minnesota, but we
did not know each other when we lived in Minnesota. I guess the trick in Seattle may be to simply seek out
people who you already share something in common with
(other than residing in Seattle); someone earlier
mentioned acting. For me, that meant finding people
who appreciate the same things as me (good espresso,
good beer, good food, and travel), and people who I
have the bond of a shared experience with — working
and living on board a small cruise ship. In other words, Seattle may not be as open and
friendly to newcomers as other cities. It takes some
time to get used to this, and my two best friends here
have almost given up and left because they found it so
difficult. But we’ve all stuck it out, and it seems to
have been worth it; we just had to adapt our means and
methods of making friends to the ways of Seattle.
02/20/2007 Jenny B. says: I know the freeze… and have experienced it. Perhaps
it’s true that Seattleites take a little longer to
warm up than citizens of other, err, warmer cities. THAT SAID, I had an experience a few weeks ago that
completely changed my perception of my fellow Emerald
City folk. My son fell in Greenlake… I jumped in
after… and needless to say I was OH SO VERY GRATEFUL
for the people who pulled us out, gave us blankets,
and drove us home. The water was freezing, the people
were far from it. (full account at:
http://seattleparents.bl… ) So now my opinion is… yes Seattleites take a while
to get to know. But I’m going to go out on a limb and
say that sometimes the harder things are the most
worthwhile. So don’t give up on us yet… beneath the
veneer of stand-offish politeness, I’d say we’re a
pretty good bunch.
02/20/2007 Melissa J. says: Well, I have been here several months now, and still
haven’t really experienced anything different than I
experienced in Florida or Louisiana. Honestly, either
people are the same here as they are in other places
about making friends (as adults) or everyone who has
moved here has received the same aloof treatment that
I have gotten for years everywhere I have lived (maybe
because I am overweight? maybe because I am
different?). Perhaps people just have certain
expectations about other people that are a bit
unrealistic, especially when they are juggling
work/school/families/misc. duties and hobbies. I
don’t know how long this “freeze” thing has been
circulating about Seattle but I kind of think it is
just a sign of the times, not the location. We are
all tired, overstimulated, overinformed,
overscheduled, and just plain overwhelmed. Maybe
adding another person into the mix is just
overwhelming. Perhaps we should think about that
before jumping to conclusions.
02/20/2007 Sky C. says: Erika D., your post was both hilarious and dead on. Melissa, perhaps you should understand the backgrounds
of those of us who complain before jumping to
conclusions about our social abilities and/or those of
others. People are over-whatevered in other cities,
yes… but the way in which they deal with those
situations seems different here. And, yes, Jenny B., people in this area are generous,
giving and polite to a fault. Just don’t try to be
*friends* with them, that’s all.
02/20/2007 Aunt B. says: I think the Seattle “freeze” can work to your
advantage. People let you do your own thing, and
respect you for doing it. It takes a little longer
(sometimes a lot longer) to make real friends, but who
really needs more close friends than you can count on
one hand anyway? Make lots of acquaintences, and you
may have to be persistant, but you can pick and choose
who you want to move into the “close friends”
category. It does take time. I’ve been here about 3
years now. I’m originally from NY/NJ and I found it
harder to make new friends out there, maybe since it’s
where I grew up and I didn’t feel like I could
reinvent myself. I mean, when you’re living 30 mins
from where you went to highschool – maybe its just a
psychological barrier.
But before moving here I spent about 3 years in Utah
of all places. (My job had moved there.) So I had a
unique perspective on coming here. I literally felt
like I had stepped right out of the 50s. Seattle was
so refreshing – people didnt look twice at you and
weren’t full of pity that you weren’t married and
didnt have 6 kids by the time you were 30. You could
also say things like…..shit…and Goddamn….oh, and
buy beer without a second thought.
So Seattle is like a heaven to me. I would like to
make some more friends, yes, but I can be patient. I
feel like I earned the ones I have made so far and
have had plenty of times when plans were cancelled at
the last minute. (I have to admit, I have started to
do this too, but only with people who do it regularly
– because they understand.) I try not to though. 🙂
But even with my good friends, we only end up keeping
about 40-50% of our plans because there’s an unspoken
understanding that they arent definite. We’re working
towards getting better though! It’s important to at
least call and cancel and maybe reschedule, but I
never just dont show up for something that I replied
to. Atleast I dont think I have.
Be yourself, do your own thing, and enjoy it – the
great thing about this place is that you can embrace
that creative side and find plenty of other people
doing the same. For love, not money. And the friends
will come – in time.
02/20/2007 Zach Cares G. says: And there you have it folks: Seattle is better than
Utah. Go, Seattle!
02/20/2007 Aunt B. says: I also said it’s better than the east coast, for me,
but you left that out. It *is* what you decide to make of it. If you’re
determined to only see the negative, you will. But
some people are only happy when they’re
unhappy…hence….grumpiness. Whatever floats your boat. 🙂
02/20/2007 g g. says: Good point, Elisa. There is something to be said for adopting mentalities
regarding people or a place, and the degree to which
this may impact how one subconsciously behaves towards
them. It can become self-fulfilling. I’m not
suggesting this is the way it is for everyone who’s
mentioned “the freeze”, but it’s something to
consider. There is also the mirroring aspect, and the
extent to which we object to behaviours we mimic. Anyhow, going on about how boring, cold or
passive-aggressive people in Seattle might be —
particularly online — isn’t likely to engender
improved communications.
02/20/2007 Aunt B. says: True! I didnt say anything about being boring, cold or
passive aggressive though….which is funny. I just
said Grumpiness – because that’s his nick……Grumpy
Gourmet…..
02/20/2007 g g. says: I wasn’t referring to you. It was general, and related
to many comments made here or elsewhere regarding
Seattle or Seattleites. Although, it also applies to
communicating generalisations about people or places
on the whole.
02/20/2007 Sylvia L. says: If there’s a Seattle Freeze then Hong Kong must be
having a serious blizzard. I love to smile, it’s only
natural for me to smile to strangers on the street
whenever there’s eye contact. People looked at me like
I was crazy when I displayed the same type of
friendliness in Hong Kong. People really live in their
own bubble over there.
02/20/2007 terrell m. says: smiling gets you far in life, i’ve found. keep it up,
Sylvia!
02/20/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: every one has different tolerances for chilly
weather…
grumpy’s nickname is funny – cuz he isn;t really all
that grumpy in real life
02/20/2007 Melissa J. says: Sky, I seem to have inadvertently hit some kind of
nerve with you. I mentioned absolutely nothing about
anyone’s social abilities. And I don’t think most of
the people on this thread knows much about the
backgrounds of the other posters who have complained
of “the freeze.” I do think I have a right to speak
up about not having noticed a “freeze” in my
situation. I am not from Seattle. I am from Central
Florida (not large cities) and I lived in Baton Rouge
for 6 years. I only moved here in October. I am
only saying that my experiences in all these places,
as far as making friends, has been very similar once
I got to my mid-20s. Making friends when you are
mid-20s and up is a different animal due to all of the
factors I mentioned in my previous post. I think
there are a lot of people who lose sight of that. Not
that there is no “freeze,” but I haven’t experienced
anything different here than in the south. Just
something to think about, not a personal attack!
Sheesh! g.g. has made several great points. Listen to her. Okay, Seattle is also better than the South! One more thing to add, when I lived in Baton Rouge, I
worked at this place for 5 years. We were like a big
family. Everyone knew I didn’t have family in
Louisiana and that I didn’t have money or vacation
time to visit my family during the holidays. Only
once, the last X-Mas I was there, did I get an
invitation to dinner. I guess my point is, don’t
expect things from other people. Even in the deep
south, where hospitality is supposedly second nature,
people stay to themselves. Without that expectation,
there is no “freeze.” If friendships are meant to be
formed, they will…in their own time. If they don’t,
don’t blame the other person. And don’t blame
yourself either. It could have just been bad timing,
nothing else.
02/20/2007 David H. says: Can’t we all just get along?
Loosen up and have more casual sex.
That is my 2 cents, bitches!
02/20/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: do not toy with me David…..
😀 (I think we get along, we just don’t agree is all) come to think of it – you haven;t UFC’d or PM’d me in
a long time
see?? see? see how you are!!!??? kidding – call me but till next month – i’m in SF
02/20/2007 David H. says: MMAD, I still got mad love for ya though.
Nothing chilly here.
Keeping it hot.
-tha d
02/21/2007 g g. says: Can’t we all just get along?
—
Brilliant irony. 😉
02/28/2007 Jenny B. says: This discussion has been blogged at
http://blog.seattlepi.nw… 🙂
02/28/2007 Miss Mary Ann D. says: great blog post Jenny – and the repsonses are like
yelp talk!! I am disgesting your words and will reply later
02/28/2007 Jenny B. says: thanks! I am loving reading people’s replies.
02/28/2007 Jaz M. says: Hiya Jenny! I replied to your blog, thanks for helping
me know that I wasn’t alone when it came to the
parental freeze. NOW that sort of freeze I’ve
experienced a lot, and still do on a near daily basis.
:o)
02/28/2007 Michelle B. says: Wow, a “parental freeze” I have never even though of
that *pulls head out of…well, you know where* I was pretty “done” with this topic, as I’ve felt like
it just turns into Seattle bashing, and leads to some
sort of self fulfilling prophecy. I mean, if you hate
on everyone in a city, you can’t really whine when you
they aren’t all that warm to you…uh…you hate us,
remember??? However, I can’t even imagine how difficult it is for
parents! Good thing Jaz is all popular and stuff
around here on Yelp – who in the heck can freeze
Jaz?????
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